Hasbeen, oil shales/sands do not flow, hence they require huge inputs of energy to get a usable product. And as you have read in a previous post, that flow rate cannot arbitarily be ramped up. Further, energy is required to mine the product, and to heat it during processing - not to mention the massive amounts of fresh water also used, and polluted, during refining (not exactly a plentiful and/or infinite resource). The energy for this heating comes from natural gas, and when you add up all the net energy inputs (and the mining itself is not inconsiderable), the net energy profit becomes very doubtful (and very marginal). In other words, why bother mining oil sands/shales for energy, when you might as well use all the energy inputs required directly? Here's an article about the natural gas that's needed, to illustrate my point:

http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/36632/story.htm

. . . and here's an article about the fresh water problem:

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/4222

And here's a brief synopsis of Richard Heninberg's book, "The Party's Over," in which the overwhelming problems of tar sand extraction are neatly summarised (page 7):

http://www.postcarbon.org/files/EndOfOilBooklet_0.pd

Whoops, that link to Richard Heinberg's book didn't paste completely. Here it is again with the missing bit:

http://www.postcarbon.org/files/EndOfOilBooklet_0.pdf

KimBax, leckos, what did you not understand about my post.

This is a production technique, proven in a 10 month trial, to produce crude from tar, at well under $30 per barrel. This is fact, not a fairy storie.

Of course it is unlikely to be exploited for many years yet, as there is so much $12 oil, waiting to be pumped, but it is ready to go, whem required, so don't sell your SUV just yet.

As a horse man, & a sailor, I am not only uniquely quilified, for a return to an earlier era, but would enthuiastically welcome a return to such a time. I could drive your coach, or sail your engineless cargo ship. I would really enjoy such a change, although I draw the line at such "green" jobs as shovelling up the horse droppings, or loading wheat, suggar, & coal, by the bag onto your sailing ship.

About 8 years ago I stopped breading horses, & bought an old sports car. Unfortunately, as far as useful transport is concerned, I still think I made the right decision

Hasbeen,

I appreciate the effort, but by link I mean a URL. As it is, I can see no connection between the Alberta's bitumen sands and your assertion that "The US has more oil ... not been exploited, in an attempt to placate [impossible] greenies." No search on Alberta sands reveals a no successful attempt by greenies to stop anything. Finding such a successful attempt in the Bush era would be surprising.

As for "Electro Thermal Dynamic Stripping of Alberta's bitumen sands", McMillan-McGee will be very rich men if it actually works as described. Sounds like a fairytale. As it stands, without the fairytale, tar sands and shale oil might at best see us to 2050 before we hit the final peak.

Right now even that seems optimistic. The picture draw by the Hirsch report http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/others/pdf/Oil_Peaking_NETL.pdf on Canada's oil sands isn't good. pp 40 para 3 says they get only 1/5 of the available oil, and need lots of energy to do so. That energy came from natural gas, but they have hit peak gas, so now that are looking to coal or nuclear (pp 41, para 3). We really do near the fairytale to come true.

rstuart,
Third attempt to get something into this system.
The server keeps coming up with an error.
I am not going to retype everything again but
the rail option was given by Aus Rail CorpCEO on ABC National Press
club and $7 billion in local opposed organisations newsletter.

Bazz, sorry. It is a hobby horse of mine. I know this is Online Opinion, but endless opinion not anchored with facts is about as enlightening as a high school cat fight. Insisting on links is just my way of trying to keep the debate at a level more interesting to me.

In your case, such insistence is purely for show. I didn't for an instant doubt your figures.