Wobbles,

"Arguing over the symptoms won't eliminate the cause will it?"

True. But what will eliminate the cause? What exactly are the actions that are going to mitigate the push/pull factors? I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for an answer to this one.

At least by talking about it, a dialogue can be struck up about what we can do, even if it's around the edges to start with.

Bronwyn, I consider you one of the most respectable posters on this forum. But your last post falls outside of your normal standard IMO.

Why are my comments on the subject of asylum seekers, repeated numerous times on this forum like a cracked record when yours, also often repeated apparently aren’t?

I don’t make black and white pronouncements any more than you. In fact, I reckon I see shades of grey and points of balance on multifaceted spectra much moreso than the majority of posters.

We’ve been debating this issue on this forum since December 05. See this post and our following exchanges: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3838#22156

You wrote: “We share a lot of common ground here. I agree we should increase our international aid to 7 % [0.7% of GDP]. I also agree on doubling our refugee intake and reducing our total immigration.” http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3838#23023

And: “I don't advocate free borders, I think we need controls” http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3838#22557

So just what it is that you disagree with?

How can we have effective border protection while at the same time facilitating the arrival and assimilation of a small or moderate number of asylum seekers in such a way that they are not seen to be harshly dealt with by some people and that the floodgates are not opened? We can’t!! It is impossible. Isn’t it?

My heart tells me that Australia should be putting a much bigger effort into global refugee issues, but that facilitating onshore asylum seekers in the way that Rudd is now doing should not be part of it.

Would you like to a have a go at directly addressing the questions I asked of CJ in my last post Bronwyn.

With a global economy, you get a globally mobile population. It is only natural for people to look for a better life, and they will look to areas of prosperity. Those who are in countries suffering wars, will naturally want to leave and seek a better life. Some simply do not see the possibllity of peace for their family, some are from persecuted minorities, and some have no family.

Re: the comments about bludging: It was amazing when I lived in the UK how so many immigrants bludged by working 7 days a week, 12 hours a day (or more) running shops and convenience stores which everyone was grateful for. The same arguments were being trotted out then...they just want to bleed the system, just want an easy ride. It simply wasn't true. Just as there will always be those that bludge and are home grown, there will be bludgers among immigrants. We just can't generalise about all immigrants.

In terms of population growth...illegal immigrants are a very, in fact miniscule, component of this. Barely worth a mention.

Absolutely agree, Phil.

Hasbeen I love your tag;-very appropriate.

(Oh no! Not the short posts as well!)

There is an old maxim that a gov must take control of an issue, or some one else will.

When the latest refugees were asked what induced them to make the journey, the issue of relaxation of the mandatory detention was a contributing factor.

The old policy of permanently preventing access to illegal immigrants meant that they were facing a closed door and didn't bother to waste their time or money.

Labor relaxed control, and someone else took the reins.

"When the latest refugees were asked what induced them to make the journey, the issue of relaxation of the mandatory detention was a contributing factor." (Quote: SM)

Firstly: as Bronwyn has indicated elsewhere, the status 'illegal' is yet to be proved. You may not like that, but it IS the case.

Stop using the word 'illegal', it is incorrect.

Secondly: who was asked? when? what evidence do you have that they were refugees?
I saw footage of a so-called 'refugee' in shadow, being interviewed,-and he made such claims, quite enthusiastically..

As I've said elsewhere, I'm a cynic. What an opportune piece of footage it is....
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(I now have the opportunity to explain my comment in brackets in my last post, because again I'm getting server error when I try to post).