Well done Sancho, you took my challenge and completely stuffed it up.

I didn't ask you who the public preferred, just what their opinion on the immigration policy. Perhaps you could point me in the direction of the polls that indicate that Australians want to relax immigration policy, scrap detention etc.

The same poll that indicated that 45% believed in the push factor also said "Essential Research says responses followed party lines" which means that 55% including a significant portion of labor don't think its the only reason.On a wider note, polls by Monash university over several decades show that attitudes to immigration generally are > 90% to reducing immigration.

http://elecpress.monash.edu.au/pnp/free/pnpv4n3/betts.htm

Rapscallion,

your comment "Some estimate the cost of 'Middle class welfare' at %50bn pa - equal to or more than social security" is pitiful.

http://www.budget.gov.au/2008-09/content/overview/html/overview_40.htm

Social Security = $102bn (somewhat more than 50)
Total budget = $320bn
Income tax rev = $127bn

The only way I can get to $50bn for middle class welfare would be to include all the family benefits, medicare benefits, pensions, Schooling etc for the 50% of the population earning more than the median.

The pillock of an acedemic that you quoted is deliberately inflating the figures to push a political agenda. You seem to lack the intellect to differentiate between political fluff and substance, or emotion and reality, which is the theme running through your posts.

Ginx,

You poor fellow. When I referred to your "pearls of wisdom", I was being sarcastic, but you couldn't even see it

Leigh and Shadowminister, are you as livid about the tens of thousands 'aeroplane people' (love that term Raps) as you are about the dozens 'boat people'?

If yes, why do you feel differently?

And what about the thousands of 'students' who come here, pay for their courses, then stay on to fill jobs that Australian born kids somehow have not been able to do. This is a well used back door for wealthy persons to gain residency status.

For instance: Aussie kids have to jump through very, very high hoops to get into medicine, but for some reason, poor verbal English is of little hindrance to get full-time employment for an overseas educated doctor. How does that work? And precisely why is that of benefit to Australia?

People like you should look with a bit less emotion at the kind of immigrants we allow to come here. Why we need immigrants and how they are selected.

"....When I referred to your "pearls of wisdom", I was being sarcastic, but you couldn't even see it
Posted by Leigh, Friday, 1 May 2009 11:13:55 AM"

.....and when I referred to gibberish/ and your sarcastic Pearler comment....I was being sarcastic and YOU couldn't see it...

Poor fellow.

(Your turn bubby).

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I understand your defensiveness, Shadow Minister. You assumed no-one would take up your challenge, and if they did, that the polls would endorse your opinion because you're part of the silent majority, ignored by the liberal media, et cetera.

But when you actually did the search you found you really ARE in the minority.

Your earlier post implies that the net is teeming with opinion polls indicating Australians want tougher immigration rules. I ask you again to link to some, and to explain why you haven't provided them already.

What you HAVE cited is not a poll, but an academic social study by Katharine Betts that draws on polls from the past 30 years.

Betts' article cites poll data up to 1996. Is it your belief that a 13-year-old poll is representative of public opinion in 2009? Or that the particulars of the immigration debate haven't changed in the last 13 years? It's an interesting study, but I haven't looked at each poll table in it. Can you please link to any that indicate "attitudes to immigration generally are > 90% to reducing immigration"? I'd like to see the specific questions and sample groups.

The Australian's poll still provides the only current data on Australian attitudes to immigration and, unlike the hypothetical polls we're waiting for you to supply, it was conducted by a professional polling agency.

That poll, taken in April this year, indicates that the majority of Australians agree with the Labor party's 2008 platform, which includes relaxed visa policies and substantial reforms to mandatory detention, announced in 2008: http://www.alp.org.au/media/0708/msimmc300.php

And why did you quote the party-lines split? It's neither relevant nor beneficial to your argument. An Australian who wants immigration reform is an Australian who wants immigration reform. Or are you arguing that the majority of Australians don't really count because their vote ended up with Labor?

So, do you still maintain that "the total result gives no doubt as to how most of Aus feels"? If so, there's no doubt that most of Aus disagrees with you.

Anansi,

I agree with you on the government and university practice of selling visas to overseas students whose English is barely good enough to work in Australia, let alone to adequately to pass university courses without a lot of help from someone. I agree about the affects this has on Australian students.

I agree about people overstaying their visas, after having arrived legally.

I don’t believe that we need any immigrants.

I have given my views on these matters when they have arisen on OLO.

I have, in response to this article, given my views on illegal immigrants. So, what is the point you are trying to make?