The saddest thing from this and other threads on the Bible is that Christians just don't know their book. They babble on pretending, trying to sustain an unsustainable argument, because it's a falsehood!

It saddens me to think that Christians would actually believe that an all powerful, loving, caring, compassionate God would actually perform & encourage the horrid crimes in the Bible.

It further saddens me, to think that Christians, don't know the NT well enough to see how Jesus empowered the laws of Moses, and therefore, if he is the Son of God, simply got things wrong.

Christians are so busy defending their faith that they don't even understand the book on which it is based!

To then argue that people are attacking Christianity is infantile.

The problem with defending the Bible as God's word is that you are actually closing your mind, circling the wagons and looking silly. God can defend himself - afterall he allegedly killed all the firstborn of Egypt!

If you want to grow in spirituality step outside the book! It is too seriously flawed!

Much of what Jesus teaches is a great basis for society. If he did things as reported, he was at the very least a great man. In a time when Romans ruled with an iron fist, he allegedly taught those who would listen, to move from some teachings of the OT, and instilled a new thinking which modified the world.

This result should not be downplayed!

However, from the lessons he allegedly taught sprang organisations that continue to teach an unintelligant God, they don't follow his precise teachings, they oppress women & others and they, in his name have allowed all manner of ugly deeds to be done within them.

Opinionated, I think the saddest thing is the failure of people like you to try to understand what it is that Christians believe, or the role of the bible in that. By decontextualising parts of the scriptures you are doing just what the fundamentalists do.

I decided there was no point in arguing with you because it was a conversation of the deaf on your side.

Oliver<<I doubt Pilate,as the Prefect of Judea,would allow..>>you misjudge the guy..[and romans..[recall who washed his hands because he found no fault?

romans let the-people have their religious/beliefs..[because they[as now]control their leader's..[the murderors of christ were his'own',not the romans

<<the management of the Jewish cleansing/purity rites would have been awkward,>>egsactly why they wernt held..[but see jesus rebutted many of the extra laws..[while validating the basic..[so called]..10..,as mosus delivered

OPINIONATED<<It saddens me to think that Christians would actually believe that an all powerful,loving,caring,compassionate God would actually perform & encourage the horrid crimes in the Bible.>>me too,

clearly[satan who runs this realm has made them deaf]..thus jesus said even a beast in the stables knows his masters voice..[god is love,and xtians should at least KNOW rev 21 reveals god sits on the throne[our heart]...that by love of neighbour..we love god[that ye did to the least we did to god]

<<to think that Christians,don't know the NT well enough to see how Jesus empowered the laws of Moses,>>[10]..agree[but not the acts]

<<and therefore,..if he is the Son of God,simply got things wrong.>>i disagree..[jesus is the son of god..[but then we are all suns of the light..[we are not the light,but reveal the light in us..emanuel;..by simply loving all,thus loving the living creator of all

>>Christians are so busy defending their faith that they don't even understand the book>>yes and no,yelling at a person to rid them of demons is not xtian service..[if only because 7 fold return to a clean house..lol..]

but also any who yell love the yelling[just using a judgement to lable another a sinner is plainly absurd[would we be judged by the same measure?..so sadly the very unxtian deeds of xtians speak against them

[no true xtian would go to war for oil[for egsample,or murder FOR ANY REASON[one god made all life[to kill any life is not serving god..[nor honouring our own gift-of-life

xtians could reveal the love and grace embodied in the teachings of our christ, but that takes fearlessly loving other,forgiving others as we would love to be forgiven ourselves..[to get grace we must first give grace]..atonement..with god..[at-one-meant]with neighbour.

There's been quite a few issues raised here which are worthy of discussion. Unfortunatly opinionated2's typepad diarrhoea has also filled up some of it, but I digress.

One issue I really want an answer for. It puzzles me how atheists continually mention the inquisitions and the like. Firstly, I often wonder if those atheists know anything at all about 20th century history, and all the millions of deaths caused by atheist dictators. Selective history doesn't help anyone, and I think atheist leaders definitely come out looking worse off if you do a historical analysis of deaths caused by them verses deaths caused by religious leaders. However, the part about all of this which really intrigues me is this: Why is it that so many people hold a worldview (Christian theism) responsible for crimes committed by some of it's self proclaimed adherents, when those adherents don't stick to it's basic tenets?

Trav
Atheists who commit evil crimes are not doing it because they are atheists or in the name of atheism. A study of evil dictators might also show many of them prefer brocolli to cabbage but it is irrelevant. Atheism just means a non-belief in God, it is not a cause that dicators go around fighting and killing for in it's name.

The Inquisition and Crusades were done in the name of Christ and to maintain and build Church power.

There will always be people who behave badly whether they are Christian, Atheist or otherwise.

As a citizen I would first trust the law to protect me rather than the Church who, for example, might remove a paedophile priest to another parish. The law is not perfect either but at least paedophilia is considered an actual crime with consequences.

Or may persecute me because I don't follow what is essentially a Church Law written by men. Or profess that God would allow a forgiven evil doer into heaven as opposed to a morally good person who just happens to be an atheist.

It is a person's own set of values and morality that govern their behaviour. Some may gather that strength from religion others may not.

Trav,

Hitler was a Christian. Queen Victoria was a Christian.

O.