Spindoc,

Here is a link to the results of a survey published in the earth science journal Eos in January this year, in which more than 10,000 earth scientists were asked whether global warming was real and whether people were largely responsible. They had a 31% response rate.

http://tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf

As you can see, something like 97% of those actively involved in climate research said yes to both questions. If that isn't consensus to you, what would be?

My concern would be whether, say, Penny Wong has the necessary background to understand or evaluate what the experts are telling her. "The planet doesn't do political compromise."

I see Peter McMahon has an excellent perception of the status quo in Australia.

As in the past, state and federal environment ministers (where never the twain shall meet,) have no idea about the environment.

Previous environment ministers have been bankers, lawyers, property and commercial consultants – bereft of any formal training in environmental toxicology or knowledge of Australia's fragile biodiversity. These ministerial appointments can be seen as potential conflicts of interest which are not in the public's interest.

Some would argue that these ministers don't take orders from pollutant industries but accept the advice from qualified bureaucrats in their departments and this is true to a degree. Unfortunately senior bureaucrats have a tendency to ignore ministerial appeal determinations which would protect the environment and citizens from fall-out. This dereliction of duty can be seen in the environmental catastrophes which prevail, where parliamentary enquiries have held these departments responsible – to no avail and Ministers continue to operate with impunity.

In regard to industrial hazardous emissions, there is no one document containing all of the various guidelines and standards used for the management of chemicals in Australia. Various guideline documents do exist for different environmental matrices (e.g. air, soil or water), though these are diverse and in many cases region specific. Again, these guidelines are ignored as are the consequences and these guidelines remain unenforceable.

A document leaked to the Sunday Times in WA last Monday revealed that Mining and Energy Minister Norman Moore, in conjuction with an "industry" working group proposed far-reaching recommendations to transfer Environment Minister Donna Faragher's powers to Mining and Petroleum Minister Norman Moore and the Premier.

Among the responsibilities that would be stripped from the Environment Minister and her department would be the management of waste and contaminated sites, control of pollution restrictions and her statutory right to approve or decline development projects.

The industry working group has suggested the public's right to appeal against assessment levels set by the EPA be removed.

Dracula’s in charge of the blood bank and Australia's citizens will remain asleep at the wheel.

Could reckon that Peter McMahon's apparent insistence on world-wide discussions, could mean that a reorganised and even stronger UN is the obvious answer to our present global economic problem.

Without an organisation like the UN, it is quite possible that all you will finally achieve could be something not much better in a sense than a big blow-up of ragging and sniping not much different to our recent OLO typo duel.

However, except for modern communications, the above is nothing new historically, being the main reason Immanuel Kant got so upset after Napoleon, the young Enlightenment general decided after one or two military successes to go it alone like Caesar and many historical others.

In universities Kantianism is nothing new, except it is a product of later Enlightenmental Libertinianism containing that most interesting concept that not one leader alone should ever be allowed to make decisions without the will of the people.

But sadly it was Pax Britannica which first broke the Kantian Code with the League of Nations, Pax Americana committing the same crime with the United Nations, as proven more recently with US Minister of State, Candy Rice, US Minister of State usually showing up ahead of any UN rep in times of trouble.

Waste of time typing any further, except to again give reminder that it has not been the ideal of a Libertinian global government that is to blame, but of Democratic leaders trying to be little Hitlers.

Protagoras wrote: As in the past, state and federal environment ministers (where never the twain shall meet,) have no idea about the environment.

Dear Protagoras,

I am guilty of assuming that Penny Wong was appointed Minister for Climate Change and Water because she had an interest in or knowledge about the subject. Looking up her background I found nothing to substantiate that assumption.

“Penny Wong studied Arts/Law at the University of Adelaide and worked part time for the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union while still a student. Penny Wong was an active activist during student days and was the National Executive of the National Union of Students. She joined the Australian Labor Party in 1988 and acted as a delegate to the party's state convention the following year.

She graduated in 1992 and continued working for CFMEU (Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union) as an industrial officer. Penny Wong was admitted to the Australian Bar and began her law practice and also worked as a legal officer with the Liquor, Hospitality and Miscellaneous Union.”

I looked up the ministers concerned with environmental issues in Queensland Craig Andrew Wallace is Minister for Natural Resources and Water. His interests are cricket, fishing and rugby league. Andrew Ian McNamara is Minister for Sustainability, Climate Change and Innovation. His interests are reading and swimming.

Protagaoras, I suspect that further investigation would yield more of the same.

spindoc,

What's the point of your comment, why are the inverted commas around scientists? I would rather listen to climate scientists of course, not economists,political "scientists",social "scientists" or capitalists,whose credentials are no more appropriate than yours or mine.

Or,if you have qualifications in climatology,please indicate on what basis you dissent from the scientific consensus indicated by "Divergence". I've long been puzzled by the Right's hostility towards the notion of climate change,I presume it is because of the fear amongst capitalists that general acceptance would interfere in their money making schemes and force them to adapt.

So you have an answer.

Thank you for that information david f and I believe also that McNamara (LLB) was once president of the Hervey Bay Chamber of Commerce though I see he’s been dumped by Anna Bligh and replaced by 29 year old Kate Jones – profile unknown to me.

Wallace (BA) has been given another portfolio but he still "loves the North Queensland Cowboys!"

In NSW, Carmel Tebbutt (Bachelor of Economics, majoring in Industrial Relations) acts as Deputy Premier, Minister for Climate Change and the Environment and Minister for Commerce. Truly!

Profile for Victorian Environment Minister Gavin Jennings:

Factory worker. Actuarial clerk. Actor. Social worker. Policy analyst. Industrial officer. Ministerial Adviser to Hon. Kay Setches MLA 1988-90, Hon. John Cain MLA 1990, Hon. Joan Kirner MLA 1990-92. Industrial Officer, Public Transport Union, LHMU and ETU 1994-99.

In January, a riled Minister Jennings hit back at claims Victoria is the dirty state for its record on greenhouse pollution. The state’s emissions grew by 2.2 million tonnes last year with increases in petrol and brown coal pollution.

But then “Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."(Winston Churchill)

Cheers