"Whoever is making money out of books in Australia, it isn’t your local bookshop, and it doesn’t seem to be the authors either."

Amen to that last bit! With my last book - which took me three years of hard research and solid slog and which sold nearly all of its 4000 print run, I got 10%, i.e. $2.95 a book (a standard Australian contract). And I spent days on the road at book launches, bookshop signings, speaking at book clubs and arranging my own publicity because the publisher said they had spent their publicity budget.

I was reliably informed that the bookseller got 40% i.e. $11.80 a book; and someone else got the rest i.e. $14.75.

I have no interest in preserving the 'rights' of so-called local publishers. Who or what are we protecting? Within weeks of my last book getting published I was curtly told the local company had sold out to an international corporation and that there would be no second edition or reprint. My next book will be offered overseas because, although a labour of love for me, I have to make a living and I may as well try for a better deal.

I find it pretty amazing that intelligent peopl think that
a) all publishers are multinationals and
b) books don't cost anything to produce

a) There are many small and independent publishers in Australia who will find it even harder to make ends meet if the parallel importation comes in. Cheap mass market books will take up even more space in most bookshops (there will thankfully be some exceptions). Not only that, but if the books of Australian authors are imported cheaply, they will not receive royalties. So authors and independent publishers will be far worse off.
b) Spikey, the $14.75 had to cover: editing, typesetting, cover design, printing, postage, publicity, electricity, paper, bank charges, salaries, and a host of other small expenses (I've only listed the major ones). Perhaps also: rent, bank interest and more. After all of that the publisher gets what is left. Not much when you are a small independent. (And I'm assuming your calculations are correct).

Well Spikey.... for once I am intirely in agreement with you!

My own dad did 2 books.. and he also got a similar amount.

What's ur book.. I'd be interested in the subject matter ?

Perhaps if ur worried about privacy...you can just mention the subject matter?

But this issue highlights the whole area of 'perception and private interest'.....

Examinator started a thread seeking to control the way information is presented here..and Foxy spoke about 'hate filled' rants..

I'ts no different from a Publisher claiming that those who are against protecting them are 'hate filled' against them.
That's a silly idea.
You (Spikey) could also learn from that. How would it be if I accused you of a 'hate filled anti publisher rant' :).... hmmmmm?

No no no... there is an issue and it must be discussed and explored and disagreeing about it does not imply that one side is filled with 'hate'...

I know this is a difficult experience for our leftoids.. i.e.. to recognize that those who don't share their view are not vile hate filled maniacs... but in fact quite reasonable people with a legitimate argument.

SUSAN... your explaination could be in fact a declaration of 'opportunity' ? Why not Aussie authors get together with an overseas publisher (a cheapy) and negotiate a BIGger slice of the cake for the author..and still offer the finished product much cheaper than the greedy local publisher, to the consumer?

What the HECK do 'bookshops' 'do' to deserve around 45% of the cake?
They put it on their shelves..they sell it in 2 minutes..click click.. eftpos.. voila..done.

BOAZ - the problem is that in the USA authors do worse on standard royalty rates than in Australia. So your suggestion is a no go. This applies across the industry and is especially so with the large international publishers and university presses.
Re booksellers - talk to one and ask them if what you say is realistic. Not so far as I know. Most books do not have that sales pattern (Harry Potter is an exception not the standard by which all books can be measured).

We have a book out with a major global publisher and are very disappointed with their performance, which is barely competent. We have an earlier book which we sold successfully through our website for a while and then transferred to Lulu - www.lulu.com. It's not making us a fortune but we get to set our own sale price and keep a decent percentage. Highly recommended to anyone who is getting the usual runaround from Australian (or other) publishers.

When I moved to Australia many years ago I came as a rabid reader much used to the Barns and Noble super stores of New York City.

An early friend here was a wholesale book seller. She could not explain the vast difference between book prices here and in New York. While I could understand the lack of titles on the shelves being due to smaller shops and smaller demand I also wondered if it was not also due to the very high prices.

Very seldom do I buy books from Aussie vendors these days. The music books I buy at Amazon for US$6.00 sell here for close to Aus$30. I can find all the titles I desire (with a 1-2 week delivery) at Amazon while the local bookseller must order it in then mail it on to me with frequently a longer delivery time.

Why would I buy a book here when it is cheaper and frequently as fast to get it from Amazon.com?

Bruce.. (and Susan).. exactly.. why would anyone ? :)

Jon J... could poor sales be because of a poor book?

What's it about anyway?

I buy quite alot of books and gave up on Australian booksellers
over 10 years ago. Once Amazon came along, yippee! Three cheers
for the global economy.

Susan Hawthorne,

"I find it pretty amazing that intelligent peopl think that
a) all publishers are multinationals and
b) books don't cost anything to produce"

Nothing in my post - to which you responded - suggested either of these preposterous propositions, Susan. Why so defensive? No vested interest, eh?

The burden of my post was that under the current regime, at one book publication every two or three years, I cannot make a living on a 10% royalty basis and there's got to be a better and fairer way. I appreciate that publishers and booksellers too have costs to meet, but a mere tithe for the author who invented and conceived the idea, worked hard to research it and brought it to fruition though numerous drafts is unreasonable in anyone's reckoning except those in receipt of the other 90%.

BOAZ_David, my book wouldn't interest you. It's touches on human rights for vulnerable children and exposes the abuse by churches and charities. It would annoy you because it is based on actual cases and not on blind faith in the goodwill of men and woman of the cloth.

*I cannot make a living on a 10% royalty basis and there's got to be a better and fairer way.*

Ah Spikey, your problem just possibly is not the system, but it
is you. Now I know that nobody wants to hear that, but think about
it.

If you want to make a living from something, then its a business.
In that case, you have to make business decisions, or don't give
up your day job.

Let me guess, you wrote about this topic as you are passionate about
it. The problem is that clearly many other people are not, or
you would have sold alot more then 4000 books!

Now see the other side. A Richard Dawkins or other authors who
sell far greater numbers of books, would make a great quid, even
at 10%. Its purely a numbers game, a bit like music. Rock stars
make a fortune, but many would be rock stars, can only dream.

At 4000 books sold, I would say that nobody made any money really.

But in today's world, you can publish your own, sell on the
internet etc. Fact is that you need consumers to buy what you
produce, if you want to make a living from anything. It needs
more then passion.

The internet is a double edged sword for many. Its created a whole
new avenue of possibilities for information distribution, but fact
is people are suffering from information overload these days.

I would be surprised if book sales have not suffered, because people
can simply use their google bars for information. I gather that
major newspapers are now in trouble, so is the music industry,
as the world changes due to the net.

I have come to the conclusion that the whole idea of copyright, although it started out as a good idea to encourage authors, has become a huge racket benefitting multinationals, governments and distributors, in fact everyone except the author and the consumer.

Take the whole idea of incentive. Any mathematician can tell you that the value today of an annual stream of money over the next 20 years is almost the same as if the stream lasted forever. As a result, there is no real benefit to the author in extending copyright more than 20 years, particularly if it has been sold to a multinational.

The multinationals, together with governments, would like copyright to last forever, as it generates income for them both. So far they have stretched it out to about 95 years, and we can expect an extension when the classic hollywood films approach the end of their copyright. I am sure they would love to revive copyright on Shakespeare and the Bible if they could work out a pretext.

The major studios have never strayed from their ambition to extract a payment every time anyone views their product, and have burdened DVDs with regional coding, purely so that they can sell the same product for different prices in different parts of the world. They then complain bitterly when these technical roadblocks are circumvented.

The general public are on to this racket, and the Hollywood studios are sufficiently aware of the likely jury verdict if they prosecuted someone for copying a film off the TV or internet that they are currently trying to get the ISPs to do their dirty work for them.

In any case, as other posters have pointed out, the availability of overseas internet book and DVD purchases has made the whole previous arrangement obsolete, so why don't we just get rid of it.

I gather that an Anti-Copyright political party has been formed in Sweden. We could do with one here.

The elephant in the room is the digital reader. Amazon's "Kindle" is a "generation 1" attempt. It's not bad and the technology will improve.

Wait another 5 years and we'll all be downloading our books and reading them electronically.

Digital readers also mean that some reference books – eg textbooks, computer manuals – never get out of date. For a small fee they'll be continuously updated.

Digital readers will also allow for other forms of media to be included along with the book. Within a few years the boundary between books and TV will become blurred.

Yabby,

"Ah Spikey, your problem just possibly is not the system, but it is you."

Yes, how dare I want to make a living from being a writer? How dare I make writing my business, my day and night job? How dare I want more than a 10% share of my business earnings?

It's my fault my publisher made a business decision to do a print run of only 4,000 copies. How dare I expect a smidgen of advertising from a publisher? They run a business so I mustn't be greedy.

I know, I know...if only I could be Richard Dawkins or get my books on to the Year 12 syllabus. I ought to be churning out two books a year.

"At 4000 books sold, I would say that nobody made any money really." With scores of books each year my publisher makes enough money to buy out two small publishers and cherry-pick the inventory. After all, they run a business. Passion is sold at a discount.

But I don't make a living from my percentage. So thanks for your expert advice on how to increase sales. You've obviously done your homework. What will the banks lend these days for self-publishers? Do you know of an empty garage for the storage of boxes? Tell me how to get the bookseller chains to accept self-published work? Come to the local farmer's market where I'll be researching and writing my next book on the trellis while I'm doing a Jim Cairns signing every one of the six copies I sell each market day.

Oh, no I can't sell at the markets, I forgot - I need to be setting up my web page and flogging thousands of copies on the internet.

"Fact is that you need consumers to buy what you produce, if you want to make a living from anything. It needs more then passion." Now you're dead right. Passion is passe. The world's got too much passion already. It doesn't sell.

Unless...unless (is that $$$$ I hear?) unless I do some Mills and Boon and make money out of passion.

Totally agree with the author of the article that the price of books is a "tax on learning" and knowledge, never thought I'd channel a Democrat (dear little Nats, Natasha Stott Despoya that is, who was passionate about getting a GST exemption for books at the very least), well there you go.

I travel to the US frequently so take an extra foldout bag and fill it with books every trip, and also use Amazon. I still buy the odd book here, but rarely. I can get 3 books in the US for every one I buy here, that's a big deal when you love to read.

We just get ripped off and it really grates, there is no excuse, aside from greed of the publishers. I don't understand why the ACCC cannot prosecute or do something about what seems to be cartel behaviour, they won't though, I've been there.

Why should books be such a luxury here when they are such a consumable in other parts of the world. the books are in English for goodness sake, the most published language of all.

I've had my work published and was fortunate to get contracts with a big US publisher who wanted books in my narrow little segment of engineering "how-to" books. So I know how you feel Spikey, it's bloody hard work to write a book, I didn't write in my passion area though, I wrote in an area that I knew was sought after. I know a Mills and Boon writer, the author hates them but they pay the bills. Lot's of people don't like what they do but do it as a means to an end, (sorry, not trying to preach, but you do come across as a wee bit precious.)

If we're to ever be a clever country, (what an overused phrase that is Mr Beatie) then being able to buy books at a reasonable and competitive price would surely help.

Mind you, whenever I go to New Zealand, I really feel ill - they pay even more.

*Yes, how dare I want to make a living from being a writer?*

Spikey, you can dare whatever you want. Fact is, you will just
have to live with the consequences of your actions.

Most small business starts when people have a day job, pay
off some of the mortgage of their house and when they have some equity
in that, borrow against it.

Something like 4 out of 5 small businesses fail, as the realities
of life hit home and dreams evaporate.

Perhaps it is simply not a viable proposition to spend 3 years
full time writing a book, for which there is only a market
of 4000.

OTOH you can be proud that you got something published, for I
gather that most manuscripts land up in the bin.

Come on Spikey,

Be real! Very few people who write will earn a living from it. Writers write first and foremost because they like writing. If it's all a bit of chore and makes you bitter, then don't write.

Personally,I would be happy to get 10% because it would mean I got published! The fact that I'm not published means either a) I'm not that good a writer (always a possibility), or b) because what I'm writing doesn't appeal to enough people or agents.

But you know what? I really enjoy writing, so I'll continue to put articles on my blogs, pen the odd poem and work on the never-ending novel. And if I ever earn any money from it, well I'll be happy if it pays for a short holiday somewhere.

Dear Phil Matimein,

I respect your position. It was mine at one stage in my life (and the passion part of it still is). But it is my principal source of income and has been for a decade. Half a dozen books later I can't afford a holiday. I know, I know, I shouldn't have given up my day job.

"If it's all a bit of chore and makes you bitter, then don't write." Neither assumption is true of me. So don't bother with the free advice thanks. It was my day job that made me bored and bitter.

Writers don't have to be acquiescent and let publishers run all over them. It's time they got their fair share of the income from sales, that's my claim. And if that means going OS for a better deal then 'national pride' is not going to hold me back.

There is a third possible explanation for your not yet being published: publishers are not prepared to take a risk (and your mss is never even read).