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The Forum > Article Comments > Misty-eyed westerners need a Tibetan history lesson > Comments

Misty-eyed westerners need a Tibetan history lesson : Comments

By Brian Hennessy, published 27/1/2009

Without understanding China's perspective, western criticism of its policy in Tibet is an exercise in self-righteousness.

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Of all the patronising articles I've ever seen in Online this one wins first prize.

Why not just state facts?
Posted by Seneca, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 10:58:30 AM
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The question is, is the continued occupation justified by the Han Chinese Communists?

Interestingly, Tibet ran its own Government, Civil Services, its own Army, fought its own wars, issued its own Currency, Postage Stamps, Passport, negotiated Treaties with many countries, had Representatives from many countries in Lhasa, evicted the Mission from the Nationalist (Chinese) Government, was invited, not ordered or told to surrender, but invited by this Nationalist (Chinese) government to join “China”, Mao negotiated with the Tibetans as an independent Nation while invading it and forced them to sign this infamous ’17 point agreement’ well now was that an independent country or a integral part of something called “China”.

“China” of course is a retrospective invention by the Han Chinese to justify their occupation and annexation of all the minorities’ lands, including Tibet.
And also to restore their "pride", after having been ruled by foreign rulers for 4 centuries.
First by the Mongols, and then by the Manchus.
Just make these emperors “Chinese” and voila, you can instantly claim that you've ruled yourself all along ……..

These imperial, colonial Empires have disappeared and there is no legal trace back to these dynasties, and therefore claiming them to be “Chinese” is just utterly untenable, or as most respectable historians put it, “nonsensical and absurd”.

“Chinese history” is the biggest con ever pulled off.
There was a succession of empires on the territory now called “china”, which were ruled by rulers of various ethnicity; over a mix of ethnicities, yet Tibetans were never amongst them.
By contrast Tibet was ruled by Tibetans all along.

There is a body of “historians” who profess to represent the ‘true facts’ of history, and on which the CCP relies on, ahem.

The problem however is that this is putting the horse before the cart, and in fact these so called historians are fed by the CCP with their invented, fabricated and distorted accounts of history.
Posted by Veracity, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 11:33:11 AM
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You have for instance a guy like Li Tieh-tseng, who duplicitously argues that all the Tibetan sources, all the Mongol sources, all the Nepalese sources and just about all other sources bar the “Chinese” are too unreliable to employ in reconstructing historical accounts.

Yes indeed. Chinese accounts straight form the CCP’s printing press.

He sites his Ph.D. from Columbia University as verification for his credentials, yet at the same time disparages these so called bourgeois academics from the west as having ulterior motives in ‘misrepresenting’ Tibetan history.

In his warped view, just about every single conclusion made about Tibetan history, by every respected historian, which invariably is in complete disagreement with his own version, is completely wrong and ‘duplicitous’.

Indeed, and there is a whole body of these so called Chinese scholars who’re fed the data by the CCP Propaganda Lies Unit, and who then claim that only Chinese sources are reliable.

E.g. Princess Wen Cheng is the source of just about every aspect of Tibetan culture that’s notable and great!

Most every temple in Tibet was built by the Hans; even Buddhism was sourced from Chinese monks!

And the Dalai Lama is an institution bestowed by the Hans, and the selection of every Dalai Lama was controlled by the Hans.

And in any case, Tibet was “ours” all along, just that we were too kind and let the Tibetans believe that they’ve governed themselves!

Tibet was not Tibet, it was, ahem, just part of china or the Yuan, T’ang, Ming, Qing Dynasty.
And on it goes……………

That’s how you learn Tibetan history in china!

http://one-just-world.blogspot.com/2008/11/does-tibet-really-have-historical-claim.html

As for today’s situation in Tibet, well, that’s another horror story, for the Tibetans at least…………
Posted by Veracity, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 11:34:13 AM
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It is good to read a piece that doesn't just follow the usual simplistic media line on Tibet: China - evil and bad, Tibet and Dalai Lama: pure and spiritually beautiful!

I am a supporter of Tibetan self-determination and oppose occupations in Tibet, Palestine and elsewhere but like all historical disputes we do, as Brian argues, need to understand the history of China's occupation of Tibet and try to get our heads around China's refusal to negoatiate with the Tibetan leadership.

Judging from the comments from the others who have posted here it seems that Brian has a point in his statement that "western criticism of China’s policy in Tibet" is "an exercise in useless self-righteousness."

Tibet's long term interests won't be served by sycophantic kow-towing to the Dalai Lama's version of history
Posted by BigAl, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 1:34:04 PM
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Dear Veracity... I like your style!

I'd love to see how you handle the Israeli/Palestinian situation and the competing versions of history....

why not join in the 'ethical war' or.. 'war crimes' threads and see what you can make of it?

I personally agree that Tibet was not part of China..and you have argued superlatively for that case.

As with most conflicts.. the 'starting point' in the historical discussion is the key. If it can be shown that Tibet was independant and was not a willing participant in any 'Greater China'..then you win.
Of course.. my view is that even IF they can be shown to have been part of any Greater China in the past...they have every right to opt out of such a thing when it was imposed on them.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 8:41:36 PM
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Let's not forget the facts when apologising for China brutal policies toward Tibet. In the past, Tibet was independent and never threatened China. To draw comparison between Tibetans with Japanese during WWII is simply far fetched. 40 years ago both countries were backward and to single out Tibet for criticism is simply opportunistic.
The reality is that currently Tibetans cannot use their own language in their schools and government offices. On 18 January 2009 Chinese authorities in Tibet have launched a 42-day "strike hard" campaign in Tibet rounding up thousands for questioning. According to Chinese local newspaper, within three days of the launch of the campaign, the Lhasa municipal public security bureau had deployed 600 officers and around 160 police vehicles, and had conducted raids on seven housing blocks, 2,922 rented houses, 14 guest house and hotels, 18 bars and three Internet cafés in Lhasa. The police had rounded up 5,766 suspects for questioning. In addition, the Lhasa municipal government is now requiring all outside visitors wishing to stay for more than three days and less than a month in Lhasa to apply for a temporary residence permit from the police, or face legal action.
Let's focus on facts and not appologies for China brutality.
Posted by China Expert, Tuesday, 27 January 2009 11:13:43 PM
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"Misty-eyed China-loving westerner needs a general history lesson"

I think that is a more appropriate title. On the balance of this article I would suggest Mr. Hennessy knows next to nothing about Tibet, either its history or current situation, nor does he evidence much knowledge of China's history. He would do well to put down the narratives that the CCP provides, and seek out independent interpretations of the facts.

Regarding the recent history between Tibet and CCP ruled, might I suggest "The Dragon in the Land of Snows" by Tsering Shakya. As for a readable account of China's own history, how about "China: A New History" by John King Fairbank and Merle Goldman.

Reading this history we can see how the CCP is copying the same formula as the various ruling dynasties that preceded it, and that the fears of 'invasion, political and territorial disintegration, and social disorder' are the natural by-product of a system of control that puts more importance on power and control than on the general welfare of the society at large. If you clench your fist around a glass, eventually it will break in your hands.

End of Part 1
Posted by tomservo, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 3:51:04 AM
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If you are saying that the CCP's brutal methods of controlling its territory are justified because of the neighbours it keeps, well, maybe it shouldn't have invaded its neighbours (Korea, India, Burma, Russia, Vietnam) or helped to prop up unstable and brutal governments among its neighbours (Pakistan, Burma, North Korea).

Frankly, I find your regurgitation of CCP history to be an insult not only to the Tibetans, but to the Chinese people as well. After all, there are millions who do not share your viewpoints. China Digital Times (http://chinadigitaltimes.net/) is a good place to find such different Chinese views.

The true way of understanding the issue of China and Tibet is not through mind-numbing historical debates. The idealized view of Tibet by its supporters actually does do a disservice to the issue, because one doesn't have to clean up Tibet's past in order to make the point that China is not a legitimate ruler of Tibet.

The proper way of understanding the issue is to understand the general history of colonialism, and to realize that China is as much a colonial power today as any of those European nations were that once carved up its coastal areas and gave China its current victim complex. And Tibet is as much a colony of China as Ireland was Britain's.

China today does not rule Tibet because of history, it rules it because of force. Tibet and China are two different people, two different cultures, two different languages, two different views on spirituality, two different feudal traditions. The Tibetans are not ethnically 'Chinese'.

End of Part 2
Posted by tomservo, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 3:52:42 AM
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When I discipline myself to ignore Brian Hennessy's patronising tone and his assumption that all Western supporters of the Tibetan cause are ignorant of history, I can see that he has a point. (According to some, anyone who supports the Tibetan cause *must* be ignorant, otherwise they would agree with the PRC government's version of things!)

However, it is true that *some* supporters of the Tibetan cause are naive, and some reporting is shallow and ill-informed, like reporting on everything. Deeper knowledge of a complex situation and history would indeed help.

He asks us to "put aside our moral outrage over Tibet for one moment" in order to see the other side of the coin. Good idea! But since our moral outrage is justified, what are we to do when we take it up again?

Peace in Tibet is unlikely as long as the PRC government insists that the only solution is to agree with their version of history and to accept their "morally outrageous" actions (to borrow Brian's expression).
Posted by ADW, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 10:07:47 AM
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Just now getting around to finishing off my post with part 3:

Ah, you say, the idea of China is not an ethnic one, but a national one, and the Tibetans are 'Chinese' because they are part of the nation of China. Wrong. To meet this definition of being 'Chinese', the Tibetan people cannot be forced into being 'Chinese' or being a part of the nation of China, they must choose to do so. And they most clearly have chosen not to be 'Chinese', they have chosen to be 'Tibetan'.

Good article about the difference between a nation-state and an empire, and why those differences matter to this situation: http://granitestudio.org/2008/03/20/from-imperial-subjects-to-national-citizens/

China could engage the Tibetan people in a more productive and peaceful manner, making the notion of being a 'Chinese citizen' more attractive, but that would take a measure of diplomacy and acceptance of the differences that exist which appears impossible for the CCP. To bring Tibet into the embrace of China by any means other than force would require the CCP to rewrite their own narrative for control over China, a risky proposition. Remember that the CCP only acts in its own interests, and never does what is best for China as a whole unless it matches those interests.

Much better to terrorize a people into submission than risk any action that might undermine one's control over the nation. Sure, unless you can flood the land with settlers or kill off the original inhabitants (and Tibet's geography actually protects it from the fate of Inner Mongolia), historically colonies don't remain under the thumb of their oppressors forever.

If Beijing is to have true power in Tibet, power that does not involve terror and suppression, it's rule must be legitimate in the eyes of the Tibetan people. So far the CCP has failed to achieve that, and yapping about how 'Tibet has always been a part of China' does nothing to further that goal. And so long as the CCP continues to spin fictions and use force as its only means of authority, violence will continue to occur.
Posted by tomservo, Sunday, 1 February 2009 2:03:03 AM
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Yes yes yes... but all the arguing/historical debate in the world cannot justify all this horrendous violence, horror, torture and human rights abuses.
Most offensive to me is the smiling relentless of so many Chinese officials, making 'trade deals' as if this is the most important human value...in the light of the very real deaths and suffering of beautiful human beings!

Burma is only 'economically challenged' because China, abusing power from the Security Council itself, backed the junta to destroy its own people, and creat a horror in yet another place of very great suffering.

When will China get it. We do not WANT to sit around debating with a whle new generation of keen young nationlistic bloggers... believing all they hear from controlled media...we want the women and men hanging from wires in cells to be released to start living.

It is NOT the Middle Ages!

And Mr Hennessy, where is your conscience!
Posted by Letsgetrealin2009, Tuesday, 3 February 2009 3:26:36 PM
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Whatever the political arguments, Tibetans are a different race from Han Chinese. They have a different language, and different culture going back thousands of years. There is no evidence of a connection between Chinese and Tibetans except for Chinese assertions of political ownership, along with assertions of ownership of the entire world and the Chinese Emperor being a devine being.

In 1951 the Chinese (Han) army invaded Tibet and slaughtered Tibetans. Now they are supressing Tibetan culture and "settling" Tibet with ethnic Han Chinese, discriminating against Tibetans and pushing Tibetan people out. Whatever their reasons, they are effectively attempting a racial and cultural genocide.

We all have our dark histories, Australia included, but Mr Hennessy, are you seriously defending these actions?
Posted by TheDoctor, Wednesday, 4 February 2009 8:27:02 AM
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A good article by one who knows the actual situation.

White Europeans from the West generally forget that they are responsible for the worst ethnic cleansing ever committed. What are white Europeans doing in Australia, New Zealand and North America? They went to these places not as migrants but almost completely annihilate the indigenous population.

One can watch the true situation in Tibet before the its liberation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=TW&hl=zh-TW&v=Xsoc4-QnplY
Posted by Philip Tang, Wednesday, 11 February 2009 10:21:23 AM
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Philip Tang writes:
> White Europeans from the West generally
> forget that they are responsible for the
> worst ethnic cleansing ever committed.
Whether it's the "worst" is open to question, but I concede it has been bad.
And it is true that *some* of us forget. Whether we "generally" do is also, however, open to question.

> What are white Europeans doing in Australia,
> New Zealand and North America? They went to
> these places not as migrants but almost completely
> annihilate the indigenous population.
And now two wrongs make a right? I don't think so. The sins of my fathers do *not* excuse the sins of the Chinese government.

As to the video link you present - it's misrepresentations are almost beneath contempt.
Posted by ADW, Wednesday, 11 February 2009 12:24:00 PM
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This scribe has learnt his lesson very well indeed, just shows what environment can do to susceptible minds.

Now, the Han run and controlled CCP has a history, and policy of systematic denigration of other minorities, and particularly the Tibetans; makes themselves look better, disparages the Tibetans and creates a common enemy to deflect anger over all the failings and shortcomings of the CCP towards this hapless scapegoat – the oldest trick in the book. Hitler used it successfully in the 30s, with the Jews the hapless victims in this abominable scheme.

Just pick a few obscure and vague “facts”, embellish them, distort them some more, report them out of context, make some untenable connections and then repeat them ad nauseam - and hey presto, you’ve got something to besmirch and slander your conquered, subjugated and oppressed races with.
And presumably justifies your own aggression against this heathen, subhuman lot - can’t think of a more cogent or lucid admission of guilt than such deplorable tactics.

This scribe has trodden the path of other infamous ‘luminaries’ as Gelder, Epstein, and more recently Parenti, Nebe, Milliband etc, in a mendacious quest to demean anyone ‘audacious’ enough to defy the hegemony of global Chinese mind control and speak for the truth.
This ccp cabal is so impervious and completely void of any embarrassment, but to charge the Dalai Lama with slavery must be the epitome of mendacity – it is the Han Chinese CCP who has enslaved the whole of Tibetan nation in an orgy of repression, denigration and exploitation:
continued
Posted by euclid, Wednesday, 11 February 2009 1:47:08 PM
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Appropriation of the entire Tibetan lands to hand over to Han settlers.
Systematic intimidation, harassment, wanton arrest, torture, beatings till there is enough internal injury for certain death to ensue, secret executions, secret trials, wanton sentences for framed ‘crimes’, owning and disseminating the Universal declaration of Human Rights, enunciating crimes by the Han Chinese oppressors………
Discrimination on every level, but then having the temerity to send out Propagandists with a concocted story of “privileges” for the Tibetan people – problem is that if you try and verify all these feel good propaganda lies on the spot in Tibet you’re met with menacing intimidation, instant expulsion, or jail, being charged with spying and infringements of state secrets!
State secrets indeed; for the official line bears no semblance to the reality the Tibetan people face every day at all.

But one of the worst crimes surly must also rate the fact that 1.3 billion Han Chinese’s hearts and minds have been destroyed, and reduced to regurgitate such libellous slander and untruths, plus a whole bevy of western sycophants, who, in order to protect their jobs and access to China and the worlds biggest ‘market’ have been cowered into selling academic rigor and honesty for expediency and instead toe the ccp line for fear of offending this cabal and jeopardising their chummy ties with this regime.
Posted by euclid, Wednesday, 11 February 2009 1:49:40 PM
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