The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Churchill über alles and the scourge of revisionism > Comments

Churchill über alles and the scourge of revisionism : Comments

By Jonathan J. Ariel, published 23/12/2008

Two recent publications assert that the brutal British and the aggressive Americans are the true villains of WWII.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. All
An excellent article on yet another distorted revisionist. A few more points:

1. Buchanan argues that had the savage Winston Churchill not corralled a certain Austrian into an untenable corner, Der Fuehrer might not have, on September 1, 1939, dispatched...

Churchill was not Prime Minister at this time, Neville Chamberlain was and if anything Chamberlain went out of his way as to not corner him with his policy of appeasement.

2. Baker says that there was no need to carpet bomb German towns and to pulverise infrastructure.

It was the Luftwaffe that first started this practice.

3. A major piece of heavy-duty revisionist artillery the sympathisers wheel out is what they label as the vengeful Treaty of Versailles, claiming that it ended World War I on a bitter note for the defeated Germany.

What ever problems arose from the Treaty of Versailles, they learned their lessons as can be seen in the successful Marshall Plan.

4. To say that the Allies were in part responsible for the genocide of Jews (and homosexuals and gypsies) is not worthy of a comment.

5. Williams further shows his hand when, at the end of his review, he crows “in July 1945, soon after the war ended in Europe, Britain held a general election … (where) Clement Attlee’s Labor Party won in a landslide. The beleaguered British people ... had seen through (Churchill)”.

Attlee campaigned on jobs for returning servicemen and women which is what they were most concerned about now the war had won. This is why he won the subsequent election. The British people were not beleaguered but triumphant and still have a special place in their hearts for Whinnie.
Posted by Chris Abood, Tuesday, 23 December 2008 9:28:52 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The fact of the matter is, is that we really know ALL the causative factors that resulted in WW2, or any major historical event.

Such major events are always the working out of vast unconscious psychic forces of which hardly anyone is aware. They can even be the result of major astrological conjunctions.

This author states that this is emphatically the case. http://rudhyar.com

Plus this author http://www.handclow2012.com presents some very far out explanations as to the causative factors of HIS-story---and the future too---in 2012

Prior to the outbreak of the war Carl Jung had a series of dark disturbing dreams re what was brewing in the European collective unconscious.

Meanwhile much of our "official" HIS-story is a lie, or a combination of lies.

The writing of HIS-story always follows the golden rule---them that has the gold, or ends up with the gold or territory, gets to write their self-justifying HIS-story.
Posted by Ho Hum, Tuesday, 23 December 2008 10:17:37 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
One of the more odious articles I've read in OLO for a long time.
I almost stopped reading it when I came to the point where the author claims that Baker suggests something which I take it he actually doesn't

("Suggesting, I infer, that less destructive ways (such as negotiations) were available ...")

(In fact, a criticism often made is that if Britain wanted to destroy Germany's war-making capacity it should have tried to do just that instead of firebombing Dresden indiscriminately).

Unbelievably, he does it again later:
"The implication is, of course, that ..."
Presumably this means that it is not stated, he chooses to attribute ideas to Baker so as to bolster his criticisms.

He says "Deceitfully, Buchanan ignores that Britain declared war because for years Hitler had violated all of Germany’s WWI agreements and had castrated Czechoslovakia"
Actually, I didn't skip history classes at school - pity my history teacher knew about Germany's invasion of Poland.

He says:
A major piece of heavy-duty revisionist artillery the sympathisers wheel out is what they label as the vengeful Treaty of Versailles, claiming that it ended World War I on a bitter note for the defeated Germany. The revisionists wilfully ignore that the terms offered to Germany were far better than what Germany itself had offered France in 1871 (after the Franco-Prussian War)

Nothing revisionist about this - it was what I was taught in the 1960's. And what is the relevance of the reparations demanded of France in 1871 ? (except that it may, in exactly the same way, be argued to have been one of the contributing factors leading up to WW1)
Posted by jeremy, Tuesday, 23 December 2008 10:28:32 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Revisionism goes on on all sides. The United States history of WW2 would have you believe they singlehandledly won the war and that the eastern front was a sideshow. The Russian history probably doesnt mention the western front at all. The British version of history starts at the "heroic" evacuation of Dunkirk and overplays the BoB into the turning point of the entire world war. The Japanese story has them being attacked by aggressive imperialist Americans then nuked out of spite, the Australian history has us being an invasion target for the Japanese.

The French history would tell you la resistance mattered and gloss over the Vichy era, and is probably still upset that the allies felt they had to attack the Vichy French surface fleet to prevent it being used by the Axis...

It should be no suprise that there are also Germans who selectively present history to suit their nationalist pride.

Ho Hum, what an amazing post.
Posted by Jai, Tuesday, 23 December 2008 10:32:06 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
it must be a base/fact that the repatriations played a big part in the ww2[as well as the 30's resession]
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/World-War-I-reparations
it has further links

the murder of gypsies'jews and sexual-'deviants'was preceded by the murder of imbisiles,lunatics,and the feeble[upon whome the shower teqnique was perfected[assisted by bayer corp]GMO

who as i recall also had a hand in agent-orange and the burning of many[18 million]japenese with napalm[the chemical-industry still murdersd the equivelent of 5 jumbo/jets[of americans alone EACH_DAY by adverse reaction to PERSCRIBED MEDICATION[prozac alone has killed over 10,000]

i wont get into the mercury put in as a'preservative'for our'flue'shots and our teeth[its in all our inoculations]or the metal FLUERIDES in our water[or the aids virus made from live monkey serum for polio'vacine'

i seem to recall a bounty was payable on the jew's,and many paid it[of course many others couldnt afford it]thus many were gassed as well[but it wasnt just the jews]25 million xtians were killed on one long walk ,but this hasnt made it into the his story books

history is a murky topic[as 911 reveals]it never pays to be too sure about any fact[as histry is wrote by the victor][our own history dosnt include the mass genocide of the natives by the colenisers for egsample[using small pox spread by banks in his'gifts']and later cyanide in flour[and poisening water-holes]

i wont get into the bankers that paid for BOTH_SIDES of all the wars we ever had[nor the intrest payments[or the worlds bankers running the fed's of the world[or them leasing gold to their'mates'at a fixed rate of $44.and fourty four cents per oz

[nor how with fiat-currency issued by the whim of the bankers they lent two quadrillion to themselves to buy up the real assets[or garno the environmentalist setting us up for the latest scam the global carbon tax,who in real life oversees the murder of whole papua river systems

histry is a filthy buisness[lest we forget that the jews were put into the ovens by zionist capoes[their own]and that following orders is no excuse to genocide palistinians on the basis of one letter
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 23 December 2008 2:01:05 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I think this is a not very coherent example of the art of Zen and straw man construction; and the subsequent tearing down thereof.
Posted by shal, Tuesday, 23 December 2008 3:18:07 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
GIVEN THE (LOW) LEVEL OF BOOKS, REVIEWS AND COMMENTS I AM PROBABLY WASTING MY TIME. THERE IS NO DEFINITION, MENTION, IN ANY OF ABOVE AS TO WHAT "FASCISM" (HITLER'S, MUSSO'S, FRANCO'S, ETC.) WIS (WAS, IS):
THE POLITICAL SUPERSTRUCTURE ABOVE A CAPITALIST ECONOMY.
YES, VIRGINIA, THERE IS SUCH A THING (CAPITALIST ECONOMY). IT CAME, INITIALLY, WITH GROWING DEMOCRACY, UNTIL SOME CAPITALISTS TOOK FRIGHT AFTER 1917 (SOME, IN RUSSIA, ELSEWHERE, LOST THEIR CAPITAL) AND DECIDED A GOOD DICTATORSHIP (THERE HAD BEEN DICTATORIAL SUPERSTRUCTURES BEFORE, WITH OTHER, EARLIER, ECONOMIC BASES)WOULD STOP THE DANGER TO CAPITAL.
THE REST (GENOCIDE, IMPERIALIST EXPANSION,CONCENTRATION CAMPS (WITH OR WITHOUT GAS CHAMBERS) WAS PART OF THE DEAL.
MANY CAPITALISTS (AND THEIR SUPPORTERS) IN OTHER (DEMOCRATIC) CAPITALIST COUNTRIES (EG. ROBERT MENZIES, IN OZ, CHAMBERLAIN/CLIVEDEN SET IN GB, MR VAN INGEN (PERSONAL CONNECTION, OK JOSEPH KENNEDY) ETC) CONSIDERED HITLER (AND MUSSO, JAPANESE) FASCISM AS PERHAPS UNPLEASANT, BUT LESSER EVIL/APPEASABLE - UNTIL IT BECAME CLEAR GERMAN, ITALIAN, JAPANESE FASCISM WERE TIED INTO RIVAL IMPERIALIST SYSTEMS, WHICH WANTED "TOO MUCH", AND NOT ONLY "IN THE EAST" (DRANG NACH OSTEN).

ADOLF AND CO WERE DOING PRETTY WELL UNTIL THEY MADE 3 FATAL MISTAKES:
1/ FAILURE TO INVADE BRITAIN IN 1940, -41
2/ QUITE UNNECESSARILY ATTACKING THE SOVIET UNION (WITH 300 DIVISIONS, FURNISHED IN PART BY OTHER (FASCIST) ALLIES: FINNLAND, HUNGARY, ROMANIA, CROATIA, AND (MANY !) ITALIANS.. THE SOVIETS WERE IN NO POSITION TO ATTACK GERMANY..
3/ ALLY JAPAN ATTACKING THE USA (AT PEARL HARBOR,ETC.PHILIPPINES...) INSTEAD OF THE SOVIET UNION, AND GERMANY, ITALY THEN DECLARING WAR ON THE USA. ROOSEVELT AND WINSTON GET DOWN ON THEIR (WELL, FDR?) BENDED KNEES TO THANK HIRO, ADOLF, AND MUSSO..
(NB: ON SAME DAY HITLER'S WEHRMACHT FOR THE FIRST TIME IS DEFEATED BEFORE MOSCOW, BUT JUST...)AH WELL, MOX NIX, INC MAX WATTS
Posted by boulan, Monday, 29 December 2008 11:02:55 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It's good that Online still attracts articles such as that of Jonathon Ariel.

When one reads some of the responses one can be forgiven for wondering whether readers of the article know any history of WW2.

Was the Western world really expected to turn the other cheek while Hitler marched into the Rhine,re-militarised the Ruhr, ignored the terms of the Versailles agreement to not re-arm and not least felt that the world had to be rid of Jews as spelt out in Mein Kampf?
Posted by Seneca, Tuesday, 30 December 2008 3:55:02 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The thing that amazes me most is that these bizarre untruths get into print at all. I thought editors were supposed to be specialists in their subject areas.

My great concern is that gullible, untaught people will believe the crap these writers are peddling.

I wish that history was again a valued subject in the school curriculum. The knowledge is wonderful to have, but there is also, I think, some therapeutic value in having a sense of belonging and certainty about one's past and heritage.

Good article.
Posted by Pynchme, Sunday, 11 January 2009 8:46:15 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy