SJF, I wouldnt say that the work-life balance changed with the industrial revolution, rather that the type of work changed from menial and physical labour from dawn to dusk, gradually changing to what we have today. Labour in the fields is less dangerous to small children than factory work, so no or little impediment to kids going to work with either parent. My name probably gives away that I grew up a farm girl - went to work on a regular basis with dad from the age of 1 year (think I was too much of a handful for mum, and best kept very occupied).

Usual suspect, you and SJF seem to be at opposite ends of the spectrum. I see good points from both of you however. As to your wife's mothers group opinions, perhaps you may find that women (and men) with similar opinions tend to form friendships, resulting in the responses you have given above. As far as the choice of home or work goes, men and women would generally give the same reponse - no work if I dont have to!!

I point out though that even if you are playing with young children, the constantness is very wearing. There are no tea breaks, no lunch break and trying to do even the simplest of household chores takes 3 times as long as normal. I certainly find work much less frustrating (even if less personally rewarding). In the old days with larger families, the early kids were still hard going, but older kids started to entertain the younger ones - a friend who has 5 young children now insists that 5 is much easier than 2.

CG,

'As far as the choice of home or work goes, men and women would generally give the same reponse - no work if I dont have to!!'

That being the case, women ARE better off. They are choosing this more desirable role, but it is used by feminists as a representation of inequality. I'd say about as many women truely want a high flying career as men want to be primary carer.

It's hard work bringing up the kids, but most people would rather not have to go to work every monday morning. It's all well and good to say, as many women do, that going to work is easier than raring the kids. But that's understandable when you are only 'adding' to the family financial resources, and aren't primarily responsible for the family's financial survival.

Maybe that's why men also see raising the children as 'easier' as they haven't the emotional involvement and sense of self worth wrapped up in their parenting abilities. The same self worth that is played upon by the breastfeeding evangilists to guilt women who are struggling with it into persevering regardless of what's best for them.

I saw an advert recently showing a woman in horror that another woman may use her bathroom and she wasn't sure how clean it was. This demonstrates my point above, and explains why women complain about men not doing enough housework. If men stay home, they often don't care if the kids have a bit of dirt on their clothes, or the toilet isn't always sparkling.

In the same way many women don't have the interest in career, and many reach their 30s with no money behind them, as they expect they won't be primarily responsible for providing for a family. My wife was quite the career woman, but said to me the other day she really doesn't care for it now she has experienced the joy of motherhood. I suspect many women are the same. Doesn't stop the feminists from using wage differences and workforce participation as evidence of inequality.

Well US, I say its easier to go to work, and I am the primary breadwinner (house-provider etc), and the primary carer of our two children. That's not to say my husband doesnt work hard - he does, buts its in low paying labour-based jobs with little job security (although that might be a rare thing for anyone soon). We would be as well off if he quit work and cared for the kids, what with a bit of extra money from Centrelink and the savings in childcare. But he has been conditioned to think that men are worthless if they are not at (paying) work, and that child-raising is "womens work" (read valueless). So our kids go out to daycare 4 days a week, which I think is a bit sad.

Women put an awful lot of peer pressure on each other, as do men, its just in different ways. My mother-in-law denigrated me for sticking to breastfeeding as long as I did (7 and 8 months), but she was a bottle-feeder and resented not being able to take the babies for any length of time. In my family bottle-feeding is pretty much unheard of, so whilst I didnt have support nearby I knew it wasnt easy and stuck with it (even though I was feeding every 2 hours at one stage including during the night - sheer hell, but was just a stage). As for feeding for a long-time, babies often get stuck in their ways and wont have a bar of anything different. Mine got miserable when teething and sucking a bottle is easier (and therefore hurts them less) than sucking a nipple, so that's how they both converted. Its horses for courses - every child and family is different, and there are some that lookdown on breastfeeding and others that lookdown on bottle-feeding.

Its beginning to look as though U Suss came merely because he couldn't wait to start in on the latest female group he's encountered, the "breastfeeding evangilist(sic) environment". Six months a parent and now he can add breastfeeding to the list of things to blame women for.

I am truly sorry your wife couldn't breast-feed as you said she wanted to. No matter what the cause of it nor how irrational it may be,a women who is unable to breastfeed when she has planned on it always feels a niggling of guilt. If you have made the choice to bottle-feed from the beginning it does not, of course, apply. From your posts you are beginning to discover this.

This first year is always difficult for both parents and the challenges and changes in focus are immense. While I applaud your willingness to get involved with the whole process, I wish you could do so without focusing blame, derogatory sentiments, and more sweeping judgements around on people (the women on this forum) who have nothing to do with those who you percieve as the current enemy.

You know, if you just came on and said "you know this parenthood thing is a roller-coster, " or words to that effect and spoke simply about the problems you'd been having, you'd get so much support.

You really are your own worst enemy, aren't you?

It's beginning to look as though Romany came merely because she couldn't wait to start in on U Suss. I thank her for her patronising, arrogant and sexist response. I would never be so corny or quaint as to say 'you know this parenthood thing is a roller-coster'. Though I will cease and desist commenting on any parenting issues, as I don't earn that right until my child is much older, or else I become a woman, or else I am happy to be patronised and kept in my place. I will also practise my spelling.

Being a mere male, I would never have understood that women may feel guilt about breastfeeding. Thanks for the pat on the head, and the applause for a man who would be interested in being involved in his family.

You really are wonderful aren't you?