BN

I wasn't suggesting AWAs were the reason membership has declined.

They are a symptom, not the disease. And my discussion about AWAs in my former workplace was to show that they do not evidence the idea or reality of equal bargaining power so commonly claimed.

I suggested an alternative proposition to the one Graeme asserted without evidence (although he says studies show ...)

Let's empirically begin to test my proposition that maybe 50 per cent of the workforce would join unions if they defended jobs and conditions.

Andrew Leigh's article from 2005 in the AFR, reprinted today in OLO as Decline of an Institution, has two graphs at the end of it, and I think reading those graphs one can argue there is a correlation between declining strike days and declining membership numbers. When unions for example in the late 60s and early 70s not only defended wages and conditions but went on the offensive, membership rose to over 50 per cent.

So you are wrong about the decline of membership beginning in the 60s. In fact in his book Trade Unionism in Australia: A History from flood to ebb tide, Tom Bramble makes the point that during the flood (1968 to 1974) when major sections of the union movement went on the offensive for better wages and conditions (and to smash the penal powers, stop racist tours, end the Vietnam war, impose green bans etc) membership and union influence and power increased, and helped turn society to the left and win Whitlam power.

Those graphs seem to me to indicate that there is an underlying class identification among workers, an identification that comes to the fore when unions actually act in class way - ie fight against the bosses, rather than worship at the altar of profit with them.

Passy,

"...and I think reading those graphs one can argue there is a correlation between declining strike days and declining membership number..."

Except that at their peak of representation (approx 1955 from that graph) the number of strike days was at a low point and decreasing. And then over the next 15 or so years till 1971, as strike days increased, membership decreased.

Wrong again Passy. No long term correlation there.

"So you are wrong about the decline of membership beginning in the 60s"

Have a look at Andrews graph Passy. You'll see that the highest levels were in around 1955 and dropped considerably until approx 1971.

Try again Passy.

"Those graphs seem to me to indicate that there is an underlying class identification among workers, an identification that comes to the fore when unions actually act in class way - ie fight against the bosses, rather than worship at the altar of profit with them."

Perhaps in the 1950's, but not now Passy. You seem to be incapable of coming to terms with the notion that collectivism is old hat, not just here but in almost all developed countries in the world. As Andrew mentioned:

"In this, Australia is not alone. Declining unionisation is a common pattern across the developed world. With the exception of Denmark, Norway and Sweden, union membership has fallen in most rich countries over the last two decades"

Time to come into the present Passy.

Passy,

To the ordinary working person who is not particularly au fait with or proficient at politics, the union dogma - like management dogma - is a complete sideshow.

At the end of the day, what matters is that union values (of human dignity, fairness, wage justice etc) are preserved and management's values (of being rewarded for performance, effort, initiative etc) are also preserved. Who cares about the narrative and how it is spun?

The narrative is just floss IMO.

Dear Passy,
As you say, at the end of the day, you have my vote.
Well said and -
Hear Hear !!