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The Forum > Article Comments > Kevin Rudd's revolution > Comments

Kevin Rudd's revolution : Comments

By Mike Williss, published 29/8/2008

Kevin Rudd is trying to put some flesh around the bones of an 'education revolution' that to date has had little else to offer.

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Thanks Mike. That was very informative.

Rudd had the option of finetuning our very good system by borrowing ideas from the world's best (Finnish) model for education or re-cycling Howard's failed policies.

He chose the latter. HowRuddism has yet again followed its master.

As an aside, and I hope I don't distract the discussion away from education, if the Liberals can sort out their leadership problems, will this Labor Government become a oncer as people decide to vote for the upfront conservatives and not their disguised cousins?
Posted by Passy, Friday, 29 August 2008 10:01:05 AM
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It depends what we are taught.

Who knows that abandonment of whale calves is linked to seagrass food web devastation and human malnutrition amongst seafood dependent Pacific island people? More unprecedented whale calf abandonment must be expected because dumped sewage nutrient pollution is feeding algae that is killing food web estuary seagrass.

There is various evidence of world fish depletion.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/05/0515_030515_fishdecline.html

The NPWS whale calf incident advisor’s claim that humpback whales do not eat pilchards is absolutely wrong but added to uninformed reason to kill the calf.
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=humpback+whale+pilchard&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Small baitfish including Pacific herring use seagrass as spawning substratum.
http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200220/000020022002A0723989.php

Humpback whales also eat small baitfish like anchovy and pilchards.
http://www.google.com.au/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=en-GB&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GZAZ_en-GBAU239AU239&q=humpback+whale+anchovy

Most importantly, over 90% of juvenile baitfish schools have been found to aggregate around river mouths. Sardines have shown a remarkably consistent movement offshore as they grow larger. Pre internet literature describes Australian baitfish as being seagrass dependent. Baitfish do not grow on river mouth trees.
http://www3.aims.gov.au/pages/research/fish/baitfish/pilchards-sardines05.html

Marine scientific evidence is lacking due to inadequate research resources. In absence of full scientific certainty, evidence of pilchard anchovy baitfish depletion includes closure of Australia’s most diversified fish processing plant, Lakes Entrance Processors, that closed permanently in the 1980’s due to lack of the resource.

With a livestock mustering background, in my opinion humpback whales on the east coast of Australia are now moving too quickly from warm water calving grounds to the last available food supply in Antarctica. Calves are no longer able to rest while adults feed near river mouth estuaries and bays where seagrass and baitfish used to be found in numerous huge schools. About 8 whale calves abandoned during about the past 10 years in Aus east coast waters is unprecedented. Baitfish are so depleted that young biologists think Aus east coast humpbacks feed only in Antarctica, true now but not previously. Mammals are known to abandon their young due to hunger stress.

Loss of weight in whales provides further evidence of devastated traditional staple fish and trade resources causing human malnutrition and unrest amongst Pacific island people that must be attended to absolutely urgently. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6599805.st
Posted by JF Aus, Friday, 29 August 2008 10:24:14 AM
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Good stuff, Mike. Of course, for teachers, one of the frustrating things at the moment is the hypocrisy surrounding so much educational policy making and commentary. Evidence based practice is the mantra of the moment. Yet politicians and commentators continue to back half -baked initiatives, ignoring the evidence when it does not suit.
Posted by Howzer, Friday, 29 August 2008 10:32:57 AM
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The facts of the matter is that overall student marks have not significantly improved in 20 yrs, and boys marks have declined in that period.

I think this is due to lack of accountability, particularly in the area of boy's education.

I have seen some of the most atrocious attitudes held by teachers and principals towards boys, particularly in feminist run public schools. If such teachers were running a private company, and had such atrocious attitudes towards their clients and customers, they would very quickly go out of business.
Posted by HRS, Friday, 29 August 2008 10:54:45 AM
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The last address on my previous post is not operating. Try again: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6599805.stm

If not then Google: starving whales. (BBC science report)

I have posted this subject matter on this thread because during the early 1980's I made presentations to over 100,000 students in more than 500 schools. Those days were about warning of world fish depletion occurring, and some solutions

PM Rudd however is ignoring the advanced and now rapid collapse of the marine and impact on seafood dependent people, especially Solomon Islands people who are in need of work and wages to buy alternative essential protein food. Their problem is protein deficiemncy malnutrition.

Australian students could be learning how to regenerate the marine environment including wild fish stocks for export to fish hungry world markets. Up to date education could lead to productivity development and billion from export of fish product. Instead Australia's fishing industry is being allowed to collapse with livelihoods and spirit lost forever.

Watch world food prices escalate now. Further collapse of peace in the Pacific is also to now be expected due to lack of knowledge and inaction. Removing fish from the CPI does not hide or overcome the inevitable outcome of ongoing education and opportunities.
Posted by JF Aus, Friday, 29 August 2008 10:59:53 AM
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Nice article Mike. By using the term "Education Revolution" Rudd hopes to infer that he is introducing something new,large scale and effective. Again, all talk with little substance. Your article reveals that the idea is stale and has dubious merit. There is no revolution here. Also,there is something distinctly "on the nose" about the Labour Party's recent claims that the Liberals did nothing about education when they and the Teacher's Union prevented any significant changes occurring in the system. Kevin Rudd has already run out of ideas though he is rarely caught short on bluff and verbosity.
Posted by Atman, Friday, 29 August 2008 8:43:01 PM
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I have learnt much in recent times that the Research of materials in many subject are to be treated with great caution; Simply put to the test – much of it is a compilation of junk- propaganda- and Corrupted group deception (Often referred to as Collective) and outright lies; and when you actually research the researchers; (Sounding like Taylorism Pseudo scientific Management); there is a common factor that radiates and punches you between the eyes.

I had the privilege to be able to meet some very young and outstanding 16 and 17 year old kids recently, and I had to choke with laughter because their T shirts stated some obvious truths – It is not without absolute certainty that these band of kids were far more intelligent that those who profess to be their piers – And the emblem on their T shirt that states; We Know who the real Idiots are.

And by virtue of terminologies Rudd uses such as Revolution – then the Dom Peri on sipping Fascist Socialist is about to come undone in a big way. Juxtaposed to the Bollinger Belching Bolsheviks; who always engage in elements devoid of the metaphysical.
I love the Irony of it all. One Idiot + one Idiot =Moronic Idiots; Logic and deductive logic is a magnificent thing.
Get back to basics or perish ; that simple.
Posted by All-, Saturday, 30 August 2008 9:42:36 AM
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mike wrote 'we have consistently been ahead of both the USA and the UK in the international triennial testing of 15-year-olds conducted by the OECD'...

dont put too much importance on this...for USA and UK 15-year-old as a group face different life-pressures than us...and in that may be factors affecting results...so one cannot extrapolate a direct interpretation that teaching in Australia is already 'better'...

but we need to remove 'teaching' as factor by standardizing teaching performance...and which a difficult area to address but we must...to achieve end-result a democratic society wants/needs/demands...that every child exiting primary/secondary school system has a good broad education which available to them to apply in society from 'survival to advancement'...we as a society owe our children this...

now with teachers, as with everything else, for same job-performance if tested will produce 'bell-curve-performance'...and we need to shift the curve up the scale...so 'bad/entrenched/refusal-to-improve' group of teachers removed, while on other end 'good/effective/constant-self-improvement' group identified and supported, and added income to reflect the society appreciation...

how does one identify the bad from good...for all pretenders will claim to be 'good' while its somebody else's fault for poor student performance which the gold-standard end result of teaching-learning performance(ie mcq/written tests at end of term and year)...

firstly, I think teaching move away from passive...ie an hour of teacher blabbing while students quietly taken in much as they can...which completely misses 'stugglers' till test time later...to mixture of passive/active(teacher-questioning-students) to gauge uptake during lesson...which gives teacher all the information they need to effectiveness of their style and measure to self-improve themselves...

Sam
Ps~the best teacher I had gave topic to learn a week before with instructions to understand the basics...then on day starting from back row questions on basics...correct answer led to next point...wrong answer led to question moved to next student till a student got it right...took about 5 minutes...kept us sharp...and we learnt...the basics-questions made us learn the birds-eye view of subject then he added the details...I still remember his subjects...and appreciate the approach he perfected to such good effect...
Posted by Sam said, Monday, 1 September 2008 10:34:13 AM
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I have seen students take interest and ask questions and learn from interesting and worthwhile subject matter that lessons can encompass, the latter even thematically.

PM Rudd's promised supply of laptop technology should also include provision of new and interesting and worthwhile productive information. Information AND technology, "IT" is it not?
Posted by JF Aus, Monday, 1 September 2008 12:06:08 PM
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Education does need a revolution, you can't go on for ever fighting teachers and unions. Education needs to be updated. Secondry schools could be run with a minimum of qualified teachers, if the system were bought into the 21st century. The use of video conferencing.

No need for qualified teaching in the classroom at all [ adult supervision ] Qualified teaching takes place on the 'send ' end of the conference. Video to be beamed into scores of classrooms at the same time.
Posted by jason60, Monday, 1 September 2008 3:23:31 PM
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To Jason60,

Online teaching, there is a good idea. Teachers would be able to work from home and could give their best just with teaching, leaving the adult supervision to handle behaviour. Teacher displacement need not occur following introduction of online teaching. New fields of study in an updated approach could include introduction to productive new fields of science and technology.

Ego will be the obstruction. Ego is so useless. What use is ego in human instinct? Why do we have such a damaging habit? Why do some teachers get so irate toward a student when the student knows something the teacher does not know? Free laptops or not there is still the genuine needs of good teachers that must be urgently addressed, that is for sure.

Science barely knows the basic biology of life in the ocean, yet the ocean produces over 50% of this planet's oxygen. Out of date education is dumbing down our children and society. Most Australian's don't even know where Solomon Islands is or anything about this neighbouring society that is in such desperate need of humanitarian understanding.
Posted by JF Aus, Monday, 1 September 2008 6:08:08 PM
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I read the 'edumacation revolution' last week, the policy doco not the Press Club speech.

It was largely content free, and certainly said nothing about sacking teachers or principals from private schools.

The 'revolution' is to focus on literacy and numeracy, both areas many could probably agree are worthwhile in 'education'but if that's 'it' then I suspect we will not have progressed too far at all.

Most people are literate and numerate to a fair degree but not many seem to have a great capacity to 'think' very well.

There is a primary school in Brisbane, Buranda SS, that is worth looking at, where the principal decided to introduce 'critical thinking' skills via a process of 'philosophy' lessons.

It seems to have paid off, with boys results rising rapidly and 'behaviour' problems down.

This school principal has run her own 'revolution' but it wouldn't sound 'beefy' enough for Kevin O'Heaven I suspect, nor 'Mr Light' of the flagpoles and donkey posters fame from the Liberal's either.

I attended the school for a day and was quite impressed, along with two other 'dads' who were equally concerned at the poor standards of Ed Qld schools, particularly school principals and regional/district staff who are charged with the task of 'managing' our principals... no hope.

See Kevin O'Heaven and his flat Earth world here:
http://www.thefourthr.info/hallofshame.html
Posted by The Blue Cross, Tuesday, 2 September 2008 11:51:45 AM
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