Paul.L: << What absolute rubbish. We have basically wall to wall labour gov'ts in this country. So much for your preposterous suggestion that people are leaving the party in droves. >>

The reason we have 'wall to wall' Labor governments in this country is that the ALP has transformed itself to become the occupier of the centre-right political ground that used to be unquestionably the territory of the Coalition. That transformation of the ALP has led directly to many former members like myself leaving the once-great people's party and joining the Greens, whose policies and ideologies more closely represent our humanitarian and conservationist values, and aspirations for creating a society and world based on social justice, participatory democracy, ecological sustainability and peaceful resolution of conflicts.

I base that analysis on personal experience and inside knowledge of both the ALP and the Greens. Paul.L's typically belligerent comment can only be the product of his wingnut worldview, rather than any actual knowledge of the ALP's tortuous relations with the Greens.

But it wouldn't be the first time that Paul has rejected reality in favour of his ultra-right political views, would it?

I have to agree with CJ. For a dose of reality, take a look at the last few Newspoll polls of state voting intention:

http://www.newspoll.com.au/cgi-bin/polling/display_poll_data.pl?mode=trend&page=select_category

The Greens have made significant advances, with those gains apparently stolen from Labor. All states are now in double figures - better than 1 in 10. Some are seeing as much as much as approx. 1 in 6 in some polls. Perhaps still not not enough to win lower house seats yet, but the senate should be very interesting next time around.

Having some involvement with the property industry I’m aware of the report, "Assessing the Value of Being Green" by Merrill Lynch stating, “It is very clear that the property industry will not sacrifice profit for the environment it is not forced to do so by the planning bodies or its end users. It is equally clear that Greening of Sustainable property is moving up the agenda and that the Listed Property Trusts need to have focus on the Environmental impact of their developments and investments”

Only the most entrenched die-hard will fail to see the pattern of evidence indicating climate change and the general warming of the planet. The degree to which we are speeding this change is perhaps a mute point. Issues of sustainability however, are not arguable, the reality is, our current consumption of ‘product’ simply cannot continue at its current rate.

The underlying cause of greenhouse pollution points to, if nothing else, a gross over-consumption. In the West we suffer a general obesity, we also waste our surplus food, have a disdain for second-hand clothing, strive to build mega-mansions (cancelling out any vain attempt at their eco-friendliness with design), seek the latest unneccessary appliances and 'gizmos', and are generally Nimbyists (Not in My Back Yard) – whether it be a wind-tower or nuclear facility. Neither do we wish to recycle our sewerage, because in our minds, it all just a little too distasteful, so too speak. I think our feelings on the environment, generally, become just a little too mystical where the reality has yet to sink in.

This article is simply substandard.
"We dared not release the results of the study for fear of being howled down as environmental vandals."
In the same article, by the same author:
"It(his 'new Australian enlightenment') would find no place for hired guns: any business consultancies that are willing to distort the facts to suit the requirements of their commercial clients..." or this:
"Self-serving consultants who change their assumptions to suit their clients do a great disservice to any endeavour to raise evidence-based policy over policy based on faith and superstition."
Is this fool genuinely oblivious to his own contradictions?
And don't get me started on his 'economic rationalism'.
Is it economically rational that a banker, whose only 'product' is innovative ways of creating debt, should be paid $35 million a year, while farmers -whose only product is food, for those poor dumb humans who still need to eat- are battling to make a living?
Is it economically rational to take my shares in airlines, banks and telcos, without recompense, then magnanamously offer to sell them back to me -assuming I am one of the lucky few who can afford such investments?
(okay, that's a bad example. It probably is economically rational, just totally unethical and immoral.)
I'm with CJ Morgan. Actually, I might prefer the liberals to the laborals; at least you can see them coming.
wikipedia has this to say about the ALP:
"Labor has at various times supported high tariffs and low tariffs, conscription and pacifism, White Australia and multiculturalism, nationalisation and privatisation, isolationism and internationalism, as has the conservative side of Australian politics." -and at all times spouting "traditional labour values".
Bullsh!t.
We now have a labor PM who is a millionaire, and who has problems with unionism, and union influence.
Forget about Adam Smith's 'invisible hand'. All the major gains in standards of living have been gained by fighting for them,through unionism.
Since Hawke and Keating castrated the unions with their damned accord, the gap between rich and poor has accelerated and is continuing to do so.
Where do I sign up for the Greens?

Anyone who has not read this article should because it demonstrates the superhuman suspension of disbelief and self-deception government representatives have about themselves. Wow. Just, Wow.

A member of the Rudd government is talking about an "Australian Enlightenment". If that doesn't make you scoff with disgust, i don't know what will.

Look at his profile. A minister of the Rudd government, using language like "dark green barbarians". He no doubt thinks his Rudd government is part of "an Australian Enlightenment"...

That is @!#$ing unbelievable..., coming from a government which is implementing a Chinese internet censorship scheme and is against gay marriage, is extremely populist and has cynical, pinchy-faced policies that are pouring from every orifice of government......Amazing. What a disgrace to history.

"These new growth theorists point out that if the history of the human race were represented by the length of a football field, then living standards were basically unchanged for the entire length of the field other than the last 5cm before the far goal line."

How, exactly, are we measuring 'living standards' here?
The salient question surely is "are people happy?" And the evidence here suggests that people in the "affluent" west are no happier than manyof our "third world" cousins.

"But now mysticism and superstition are making a comeback. Their revival began in the '80s with attacks on economic rationalism."

Seriously? You actually believe this bollocks? So called "economic rationalism" IS superstition, the assumptions it is built on make mysticism appear empirical! Economic Rationalism is the new dogma.

"These deep-green crusaders have declared their opposition to coalmining even if emerging technologies were to reduce its emissions to zero..."

Ok Mr Faith based economics... exactly where is an operational carbon capture AND sequestration power plant operating? Where? Nowehere thats where... it is not even emerging. It is barely past conception. Whether this technology will actually be economically viable let alone practicable is a MATTER OF FAITH at this point.

"As director-general of the Queensland environment department in the early '90s I inquired into the life-cycle benefits of container deposit legislation."

Gosh, I guess the South Australians must look like fools for the past 30 years of successful effort. I suspect you dared not release your findings because you would be shown to be the fool you evidently are... but call it "shouted down" if you like. There is absolutely no way that merely collecting and melting the glass can use more energy than the original manufacture of glass from its raw materials. None. It's called thermodynamics.

Your incessant reference to the Enlightenment period reminds me that climate change deniers do the same thing!

You are enlightened. We are ignorant. You know the truth. We live in the dark.

You could well be the Brendan Nelson of the labour party... have you ever voted Liberal?