Greer is simply a sophist!

People like Greer have more than entertainment value. They also serve as useful touchstones for keeping one's own opinions reasonably balanced. Just ask yourself now and then: "Am I starting to sound like Germaine Greer/John Pilger/Al Gore/Gerard Henderson?" If so, it's clearly time for a reality check.

First, we are all racists. If we are not, there is something lacking in our psyche.

Perhaps you should stand back a bit and look at what points of Greer's thesis you can find agreement with and start a dialogue with her. She is more than just a pretty face.

David

I have a great deal of respect for Marcia Langton and this essay is very good.

However, I think that Germaine may be on to something important, as she usually is.

The author of a book titled Sitting In The Fire http://www.aamindell.net maintains that all social conflicts, large or small, are the expression of deep seated psychic and psychological forces. And that the losers of all social conflicts suffer deep seated traumas which manifest in all kinds of pathological ways.

The author calls them time-spirits.

He also points out that until these deep time-spirits are acknowledged and released via a patient SITTING IN THE FIRE process of mutual reconciliation nothing much ever changes.

Another book which addresses the disintegration of a once proud indigenous culture was/is The Mountain People by Colin Turnbull.
A book which also has much to say about the condition of mainstream Western culture, and where it is heading.

I have read quite a few articles on the situation, but to see Greer implicated as a racist because her assessment of the situation differs (with reason) from yours is a little rich.

The situation is complex as any action taken to resolve the issue will result in some unpleasant consequences.

The only way to remain politically correct with this issue is to say nothing at all.

"First, we are all racists. If we are not, there is something lacking in our psyche."

This is an interesting comment in the context of this debate. The importance of the comment is that it shows there is a good element to racism (where people recognise they are different to others and feel the need not to mix so as to preserve what they feel is unique to, and good about, themselves) and then there's the other type of racist which is the cloak that boofheads use in order to cover their very dubious and thuggish propensities. It's good to make this distinction.

In this context, how exactly is Greer a racist? And is Marcia saying it's the good type or the bad type? Or is Marcia just using the racist tag as a euphemism for a different criticism of Greer: that's she's all lefty/idealistic talk and no action?

If aboriginals are an evolving people then Greer makes some fair points. Of course the racist policies that flowed from the belief in the evolution myth are crap. Violence is prevalent because of alcohol and no real family structure. Many men in prison worry all day long about who their 'latest' woman is with. Tribal fighting often flows from this jealousy and bitterness. We all know children are far more likely to be abused by stepfathers and this is one reason why rates are so high among aboriginals. May be the Christian teaching of faithfulness to one's spouse and children is not pc because many whites like to indulge in all sorts of hanky panky but no doubt it would reduce violence. Handing the teenagers condoms has proven only to increase abuse, sexually transmitted disease and violence. Again our leftist policies of the last 60 years or so has failed miserably. In fact it is our lack of morality in the name of civil rights as white people that has contributed so much to the degradation of the aboriginals. At least they don't murder their unborn for convenience sake like we do.

I think there are many who don't care or read about anything Germaine Greer has to say.

I wonder whether one of the underlying problems in discussions about indigenous issues is the way 'culture' is used by both sides. I think there are two problems with the way the term is used. The first is that culture and society are too often used interchangeably, when culture actually refers to the habits of behaviour of people within a society. The second problem is that too much discussion appears based on the notion that a culture is immutable.

Cultures change constantly. The changes during and after the Agrarian and Industrial Revolutions and in Australia after WW2 are good examples. Aboriginal culture has changed and continues to change. As a society we need to acknowledge this and resist the temptation to see Aboriginal culture as eternally rooted in a kind of 'noble savage' past. I vividly remember Noel Pearson asking, during a typically passionate address, "Why can't an Aboriginal person become an expert in Russian literature?". Pearson, Marcia Langton and many others are examples of people who have both remained engaged with evolving Aboiginal cultures and integrated into the broader Australian society.

Once we recognise this possibility and stop patronising Aboriginal people by romanticising white versions of their supposed culture, we can begin to address the deeper issues of indigenous disadvantage in this country.

It isn't just the lefty whites who romanticise the Aboriginal culture, they do it themselves too. The problem is that in too many areas they have evolved into a culture where sitting under a tree with a tinny in one hand with the other being held out for the dole cheque has become the norm. Fortunately there are also many communities where they have grasped the nettle and got out of this rut.

One wonders how successful will be the initiative being taken by Fortescue Metals and other miners to provide training and good jobs to the shade sitters. As well as that, the fruit picking jobs being offered to Pacific islanders seem to have been ignored by our own indigenous youth. I suspect that you need to be white before you are prepared to leave home and get a job.

David

Without having read Greer's essay, it's impossible to assess whether Langton's accusation of racism is warranted. However, that's not the case with this odious sentiment:

<< I suspect that you need to be white before you are prepared to leave home and get a job. >>

David VK3AUU thinks that because he's a racist, everybody else must be too. I think there must be "something lacking in his psyche", because I find his statement above not only racist, but offensively so.

It's difficult to weigh up the arguments accurately without having read the essay in question, but from what I've gleaned of its comments, I agree with Ho Hum that Germaine Greer does have something of value to contribute to the ongoing debate on aboriginal issues.

I'm sure Greer would be the first to admit that the causes behind male Aboriginal anger and violence are many and complex. Equally though her argument of repressed and unrequited anger would I'm sure resonate with many in the aboriginal community.

"Greer ... should stop baiting Aborigines for a response to her essay. Most of us are too busy with tasks of much greater significance for the wellbeing of the Indigenous people of this country."

This comment smacks of John Howard's 'practical reconciliation' rhetoric and his arrogant dismissal of the importance of symbolism and academic critique. On the ground measures will have much more chance of succeeding if they're based on dispassionate historical analysis and rigorous academic and scientific scrutiny. Greer's essay should be welcomed as a significant addition to the existing body of literature.

Dismissing her arguments as 'failed leftist excuses', as 'attention-seeking' and as 'racist' is unhelpful in establishing meaningful dialogue aimed at solutions. I too have respect for Marcia's intellect and passion for her people's welfare, but she can be very strident and too dismissive of others' viewpoints.

I heard her on RN recently in a discussion on Aboriginal employment with a male aboriginal whose name I didn't hear. She was totally dismissive of his argument that the CDEP scheme could be useful in establishing much-needed employment projects based on environmental sustainability, and would brook little criticism of her preference which was to rely on the mining companies to provide employment opportunities.

As is the case here, there was obviously merit to both sides of the debate. To insist, as Marcia does, that another view is 'just plain wrong' does nothing to further her credibility or the cause she works so hard for.

Why give her oxygen?Germaine has to say something contraversial to get attention.She is a sad,lonely twisted individual.Let her slip silently into obscurity.

That's where you're wrong on this Arjay. Germaine Greer is a quite brilliant Australian who has never quite "got" Indigenous Australia, despite her best efforts - albeit from the perspective of Oxford, which probably explains how badly wrong she gets it.

While it's something of an Aussie wingnut mantra to slag off Germs, she is anything but a "sad,lonely twisted individual". Anybody who watched Q&A last week would have to attest to the fact that she remains a vibrant and attractive Aussie intellectual woman. That she sometimes gets it wrong amounts to little - show me one Australian public intellectual who hasn't put their foot in it lately.

Now that I think of it - would OLOers care to nominate an Australian public intellectual who hasn't made an arse of themselves - say, in the past two years? If we get enough nominees I could run a book ;)

CJ Morgan,

I agree that Greer is a brilliant person and is probably trying to make a real difference. However, her real problem is that she's so far ahead of the pack that it's almost of no consequence to anyone else what she says, whether she's right or wrong.

I think the public intellectual in its current form is on its last legs unless the ordinary citizens can fill the gap between them and the intellectuals.

"I think the public intellectual in its current form is on its last legs.."

Who needs public intellectuals? As an average Aussie on the street, I'd much prefer to listen to what our olympian and other sporting champions have to say. Winning gold is far more important than the concept of nurturing an informed populace. Haven't you figured that out yet, Rob and CJ? Go Australia! Aussie Aussie Aussie! Oi Oi Oi!

Marcia and others
I spent my formative years living, playing and learning with an indigenous communities albeit PNG and after seeing her On Q&A I too think what she had to say was meaningful and productive.

As for her book I haven’t read it yet so I can’t comment other that in principle. You appear a little over sensitive to the idea that there IS a problem that white perspectives simply don’t understand.

I think it’s fair to say that to the Eurocentric rationale the indigenous life coda is unintelligible and largely incomprehensible. Therefore the same applies for the other side, even more so particularly since they have no concept of the search for God or meaning in the way We do. Those sorts of issues just are. As a consequence they have never developed a sense of philosophic reasoning, abstraction in our sense even superlative they simply have no need for them.

Without these tools and the language, understanding and therefore total integration as such is a tortuous and personal affair. The best outcome would be the ability to live in two worlds. Like all people there are those who are more capable of this giant cultural leap than others.

Imagine mandating lectures on "the applicability of Nietzsche’s ‘effective History’ in the 21st century”? Most Aussies wouldn’t understand the topic or care. “Why do I need that crap?”, they understand their world. One can only image the ensuing resentment and or rage. Now if we were conquered by ET and his millions who took OUR land and demanded WE adopt their alien psyche?

It strikes me as (steroidal) hypocritical arrogance to expect/demand the indigenous community to understand our “gobbledy gook” and fall into line without monumental problems. (bordering on Cultural Genocide)

Given who Prof Greer it writing FOR I think this article misses the point.
Neither I or the Prof have it all right but in essence HER concepts need closer examination.

PS Concern for others has bugger all to do with wing's (thinking) right,left or otherwise.

Firstly, Greer is not only a brilliant woman but also an honest critic even of herself. Greer comes across as more self-effacing rather than someone who wishes to grab the spotlight.

Greer's rage idea cannot be too easily dismissed. There are similar parallels throughout history. The Irish for one and the effect of disenfranchisement on Irish men, subsequent alcohol abuse and the impact on families.

The problem with academic intawectuals is that they come loaded with post-modernist relativism and all they ever see is a reflection of their utterly self-referential selves.

This is why all they ever do is ask long winded, complicated and personal narrative laden and emotive questions and scarcely a solution in sight.

Ya see, in academia and amongst pubwic intewectools its all about the narrative. Its NEVER about the solutions. And why is that?

Because that would require judgment. They would have to take a stand. They would have make value judgements. They would have to stick their necks out and be accountable. Uh-ohh. Every relativists worst nightmare. But what they hey... thats the game.

All talk and lots of reaction.

Which is fine, but lets not pretends that its anymore than a pretence.

trade's hit the nail on the head.

Isn't it amazing, how those people who are pro some particular minority group or race, are always in denial of being "racist", but are so ready to brand someone not in their particular clique as "racist". When you can produce a cogent argument without name calling, we will be prepared to listen to you. Until then, just go back to your ivory tower and write some more drivel, to entertain your non-racist friends.

David

Aboriginal Australia has Langton,
White Australia has Greer.

They are so much alike.

Perhaps a reading of

http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/08/21/on-rage-germaine-greer-reviewed/

might throw some more light on where Germaine Greer is coming from.

David