The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > The Gardasil 'miracle' coming undone? > Comments

The Gardasil 'miracle' coming undone? : Comments

By Renate Klein, published 21/8/2008

Action is needed before the luck runs out: the Gardasil vaccination program should be suspended now.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. All
We cannot read this article in Melbourne because our CSL shares are doing very nicely. Also, not one ounce of criticism of the HPV vaccination program will appear in The Age, so where's the problem? I bet you are down on the Olympics and GP car races, too.
And before I forget, do not read the articles by Elizabeth Rosenthal - http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/21/health/21vaccine.html and http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/health/policy/20vaccine.html (free registration required).
Posted by gavrilo, Thursday, 21 August 2008 9:34:27 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
This kind of anecdotal 'evidence' is worthless unless there is some comparison with a control group. When a million people are given any kind of treatment, some will get sick and some will die. The question is whether more or less of them will get sick or die than in a million people who are not given the treatments. If I get a Gardasil injection and then get the flu, is it the injection's fault? Or would I have got it anyway? Only a controlled experiment can determine this; and presumably Gardasil has been through the same rigorous testing - including controlled experiments - as other vaccines.
Posted by Jon J, Thursday, 21 August 2008 9:38:45 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yep and RU486 gives you AIDS.

Honestly. that's true. I just pulled the figures from where the sun don't shine.

Give us a break.
Posted by Cheryl, Thursday, 21 August 2008 9:59:56 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Rubbish,

No vaccine or medicine is completely without side effects. The couple of instances quoted are entirely anecdotal and possibly co incidental.

If 3m doses of sugar water were given I am sure that there would be a rash of similar complaints.

The 3m doses will probably save 50 000 girls from a long and painful death.

Quip that HPV hasn't been proved to cause cancer is the same used by the tobacco companies to deny a link with lung cancer.

Nothing is perfect. The risks of vaccinating are much lower than the risks of not vaccinating.

However, I would agree that giving boys the vaccine will help (herd), but as it needs girls as vector, and girls suffer the consequences, giving it to boys is neither justified financially or medically.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 21 August 2008 11:39:36 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Compared to the number of lives this vaccine is going to save (70% prevention rate if I remember correctly) the small number who die from the injection are a drop in the ocean to the number who will live thanks to this vaccine.

This article should be ignored as the author has failed to see the bigger picture
Posted by EasyTimes, Thursday, 21 August 2008 11:51:30 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I, too, have always wondered why Gardasil was introduced to the market with such haste. Were proper trials conducted? There was hardly time between when the "miracle" drug was discovered and when girls and women were being encouraged to line up for the treatment. Thanks to Renate Klein for the very helpful information she gives in her article. I can't believe that people have made comments like "nothing is perfect" or, the number of people who die compared with those who don't is "a drop in the ocean". What if your daughter was one of those unfortunate "drops" in the ocean? Surely the experience with HRT, and all those women who contracted breast cancer because of it, is enough to make us cautious this time.

bettymc
Posted by bettymc, Thursday, 21 August 2008 4:08:34 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I agree -all this fuss about Gardasil.
A few dead women - that's the cost. Of course just so long as my daughter isn't one of the 'dead' statistics!
Medical researchers are infallible -that's why thalidomide babies don't exist; pregnant women didn't lose foetuses due to Debendox; Depo Provera didn't cause blindness, etc; high doses of the first contraceptives pills didn't cause thromboses & gall stones & HTR supplements didn't increase breast cancer rates.
Give us a break. Blokes have been pumping chemicals into women's bodies for years. Let's prevent this virus. Make Gardasil compulsory for every male! And teach them how to use condoms!
Posted by Caford, Thursday, 21 August 2008 4:31:17 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Shocking to hear of more side effects to Gardasil and this time in the form of pancreatitis but really it is time that this vaccine be stopped as you have written, Renate. It is simply not needed. We do not even know if the causation that HPV is the cause of cervical cancer is correct. The numbers of girls particularly in Australia who get this cancer are very low because most well fed Australians have healthy immune systems which deal very well with the virus HPV. Most sufferers of cervical cancer are old women. Why then are we vaccinating young girls? Obviously this is a win for big business as usual and it doesn't matter how many girls' immune systems are damaged along the way.
Posted by Manning, Thursday, 21 August 2008 8:42:57 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I think the author's agenda is not so much giving women control of their reproductive rights as trying to shove the sex genie back in the bottle.
Posted by billie, Friday, 22 August 2008 7:54:04 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The argument that the side effects from Gardasil are rare is simply not true. Gardasil fits the medical definition of a common reaction rate. Gardasil also has far more adverse reactions than other vaccines such as tetanus have.

The argument that some deaths are worth the lives Gardasil will save ignores the fact that Gardasil is not actually necessary in preventing cervical cancer - pap smears are. The large worldwide death rates from cervical cancer quoted in newspaper reports do not mention that the vast majority of these deaths occur in third world countries where pap smears are not available. Likewise, the majority of cervical cancer deaths in western countries are poor women who do not receive regular pap smears.

Pap smears will save cervical cancer deaths, but as Renate pointed out – there is no evidence yet that Gardasil has prevented a single cervical cancer death. In addition, no independent research exists yet which tests the efficacy of the vaccine (unlike the independent research that exists to prove the link between lung cancer and smoking)
Posted by Gertrude, Friday, 22 August 2008 9:05:45 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It is good to have all this detail and references put together in the same place - a really useful article.

I didn't realise that it was not mandatory to report adverse reactions. I agree that all girls and women who have had the vaccine should be contacted - there is an urgent need for data and it is the only responsible thing to do. Unfortunately it seems too little too late - because these girls have unknowingly become the 'trials' that were not appropriately conducted. How unfair.

I also agree the vaccine should be halted until all this has been done. It is important that people can trust government vaccine programmes - experimenting with girls and women does not build trust.
Posted by Jarrah, Friday, 22 August 2008 2:13:57 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Excellent article. Thanks, Renate, for daring to be one of the much-needed critics in Australia who as you point out 'are almost perceived as national traitors'. Your research is comprehensive and wide ranging and I agree, just on the precautionary principle alone, health minister, Nicola Roxon, should act immediately to halt this unproven experiment on young girls.

Caford

"I agree -all this fuss about Gardasil. A few dead women - that's the cost. Of course just so long as my daughter isn't one of the 'dead' statistics!"

Spot on! Your sarcasm becomes you! I agree with every word you posted and also the comments of bettymc, Manning and Gertrude.

billie

"I think the author's agenda is not so much giving women control of their reproductive rights as trying to shove the sex genie back in the bottle."

Are you for real, billie? I find this comment hard to fathom, especially coming as it does from a fellow female. Renate is clearly arguing the case for greater control and choice for women. She's arguing against pharmaceutical conglomerates seeking to profit through compromising young girls' long-term health. And she's raised the valid point as to why is it that only girls are being administered this vaccine when boys are just as likely to harbour the virus.

I challenge you to quote anything that Renate has said which could possibly support the absurd, damaging and unsubstantiated claim you have made against her.
Posted by Bronwyn, Friday, 22 August 2008 2:14:19 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The casual and callous dismissal of the a wide range of harmful and debilitating effects of the Gardasil vaccine by a number of people who commented on Renate Klein’s highly informative article is disturbing. The drug companies have a history of introducing their products too readily to an uninformed public under the guise of great benefits for their target population. If there is no problem with the Gardasil why the increasing reports of harmful effects of the drugs? Why has no independent research been undertaken?
Dr Klein, in a comprehensively researched article questions both the side effect level and indeed the efficacy of the vaccine treatment itself. Where mass vaccination is being undertaken, surely the most stringent safety and efficacy analysis must be undertaken and continuously monitored
Mary Lucille
Posted by marylucill, Saturday, 23 August 2008 7:31:48 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
BettyMC and others,

What if your daughter were one of the few that died as a result of the vaccine is a trivial argument. And could be used against any drug even aspirin.

What if your daughter was one of the many to die from cervical cancer if anti vaccine hysterics stopped its distribution is more valid.
Posted by Democritus, Sunday, 24 August 2008 11:49:32 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It makes me really sad to think that so many people think that convulsions 24 hrs 7 days a week was worth it those very few who wont get HPV from Gardisal! I had 3 months of 24/7 convulsions after my 2nd injection, was it worth it? I dont think so! The most frustrating thing is that it still wont stop me from getting cervical cancer! I can still get it!! It has only decreased my chances of getting the 2 strains of HPV that might, in some cases might turn in to cancer. So I can still get ALL the other strains, and I can still get Cervical Cancer. I am mad because I was SOLD the injection as "who wouldnt want to be able to cancel out cervical cancer?" Its just not true! IT should be who wants to stop getting a STV? well only a very rare one? This is only going to stop more kids having safe sex! They think they cant get anything!
Posted by Juls, Sunday, 24 August 2008 12:21:28 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Democritus

Your point: What if your daughter was one of the many to die from cervical cancer if anti vaccine hysterics stopped its distribution is more valid.

Entirely valid, however, the question that continues to trouble me is:

As both sexes can carry the virus:

Why aren't our sons being vaccinated as well?
Posted by Fractelle, Sunday, 24 August 2008 12:23:32 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It’s not that I condone everything Big Pharma does but I’m more sceptical about the anti vaccinators than I am of the Gardasil vaccine at this stage.
I’m not opposed to more research though.

But let’s face it, every other vaccine under the sun has been the target of lies, bad science and fear mongering by these people, so I’m not surprised at attacks of any new vaccine on the market.
That MMR vaccine causes autism, for example, is a classic fantasy of these zealots.

The fact is, every vaccine has done a good job overall.

The author might have some valid points, like questioning whether this vaccine will do as promised, or whether there has been sufficient testing, but unfortunately she interweaves reasonable parts of her article with some fear-mongering also used by anti-vaxers.
She mentions aluminium, for example. Well, it used to be mercury that was attacked by the zealots, but since the mercury myth has been debunked by science, aluminium is the new mercury.

The media is at the pack’s service, always eager to highlight their nonsense for some drama.

The fact is that this vaccine was tested and it turned out that there were no more side effects from the Gardasil vaccine than from the placebo vaccine.

Agree with the author, Fractelle and Bronwyn that if this vaccine does as promised, it should be administered to boys as well as girls.
Posted by Celivia, Sunday, 24 August 2008 11:37:40 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
All vaccines and medication has its downfall. It is an unfortunate aspect of our varying genetics that gives way to an individuals reaction to certain perscription drugs and vaccinations.

For the government to stop the distribution of Gardasil based on undetermined correlations would cause just as much social discord as disregarding severe reactions and continuing it.

By saying 'genetic pre-disposition', no one is putting the blame on the women and young girls who've suffered severe reaction since none of us ever had any say in our genetics.

There is no argument that more research is required and effects should be monitored stringently, at the same time, parents and individuals should be given full information on all the possible side-effects rather than a sugar coated version of it.

No human life, or any life for that matter, should be justified as reasonable loss. But let's not jump all over it and demand an absolute stop.
Posted by mj, Monday, 25 August 2008 12:49:39 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The Author, Renate Klein is absolutely spot on about Giant Pharmaceuticals Merck,CSL, GlaxoSmith Kline etc. Where there's a buck to be made - ethics, honesty, integrity, and patient recovery soon fly out the window..becoming the first casualty of zeitgeist bean counters.

Business management,spurred on by avaricious stake/share holders are more concerned about dividends, EPS's, and double digit Superannuation Fund returns than legions of dying and infected F&M with incurable diseases.
Least of their worries. The circus band plays on.

Merck Sharp& Dohme's world wide sales (2008) $24.4B. Up 10%.Commonwealth Serum Laboratories, established 1916, represented 27 Countries (2008) revenue $ 702. Up 30%. ASX shares currently $ 37.67.
Scenario: Bull. Buy.

If you want solid growth, security and uninterrupted sleep at night, this is the place to be.

History records Health Minister in the Howard Govt, Tony Abbot who approved PBS listing of Gardasil through the Medical Assn Committee, TGA and Drug Evaluation Commission 2006. For 3 shots @ $135.00. Pharmacy's dispensing fee's 3 @ $12.50, plus Doctor's visit 3@ $85.00
Spin off's include courier service,syringe disposal,refrigeration, post-trauma backup, research grants, subsidies, clinical trials, drug monitoring, red tape etc. One soon get the hang of the cost involved and corpulent taxpayer's largesse. To date 26 million doses World-wide with 3.7 Aussie females aged 11-26.

Merck in it's relentless drive for market share have been cited by FDA for false advertising, and arguably miraculous claims of cancer cures from their product. Merck Aust registered Gardasil June 2006. Resolution 8971 " a prophylactic HPV vaccine for types 6,11,16,18. GlaxoSmith: Cervarix for type 16, 18.

Interesting enough of 130 strains of Human Papillomana Virus (HPV)only 3 % are identifiable types. Verrucae (warts)Cervical Cancer. Cancer with no symptoms. Dispute surfaces when exorbitant blanket claims of 70-80 % covers all cerv cancers when in fact only 2 strains, and anal cancer 6,11 is addressed. At present there is no FDA approved screening test for verrucae. What of the remaining 97 %.Moreover, Pap smear screening only identifies visual abnormalities !

US Cancer Assn estimates (08)of 11,070 females diagnosed with invasive cerv cancer, 3870 will die.By year 2010,
Posted by dalma, Monday, 25 August 2008 1:44:24 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
6.2 million new (age 15-44) cases. Of these 74% will have at least one strain of genital HPV. 75-80% sexually active persona will be infected at some point of their lives, including gay men. Both sexes are carriers. 40-50% is sexually transmitted in the anogenital area. The inescapable fact is currently there is NO cure or treatment. Worst, PBS is denied the opposite sex. Nicola Roxon, when contacted said the Rudd Govt had no plans to extend PBS coverage at this juncture. Discriminatory ?

The Gardasil saga began when Politicians got into the act. Enigmatic Professor Ian Fraser, after 12 years of back breaking research and experimentation in a pokey,renovated WC at the Prince Alfred Hospital. Brisbane. With only 4 dedicated staff, borrowed scientific equipment, and liaisons with QIT, UQ they accidentally discovered a feasible antidote for some forms of HPV, which showed promise. JWH immediately pounced, elevating Fraser to Australian of the Year, showering him with accolades, and even sought Nobel Prize nomination ? Political Kudos.

The scientific world became equally impressed with Merck, GlaxoSmith, Pfizer, Roche vying for the privilege of developing, marketing and fast-tracking FDA approval. The spin PR spruikers roared their endorsement specially when the ground work cost them zilch.

Merck's Vioxx ( Refecoxib) which gained FDA authorization is the subject of $4.85B individual claim in US Courts. FDA issues drug warnings, recently reported increase of 150(2007) from 98( 2006) for promotional activities, risky undertakings, malpractice, deaths.

German Pharma Grunetial 1957 introduced Thalidomide which Canadian Health Official's not only approved post haste, agreed to be sold without prescription. Off the shelf. Richard-Merril Inc (Can) distributed the product under license.USFDA stalled, following clinical trial evaluation. Result: 120,000 babies born with deformities. It took 4 years to stop circulation. It is marketed under different names throughout the World.
It's been used to treat prostrate, AIDS, and leprosy.
Posted by dalma, Monday, 25 August 2008 2:22:53 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Merck was under a criminal investigation by the US Department of Justice for failing to disclose life threatening risks of Vioxx at the very time it was pressuring states to make Gardasil mandatory for little girls entering seventh grade in the US. As internal emails obtained during the Vioxx investigation prove, the company is corrupt to the core. What sane parent would trust their daughter's life to this company.
Posted by Pam Martens, Tuesday, 26 August 2008 1:37:47 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Don't forget that Gardasil is being offered on an opt-in basis. If parents don't sign the consent form the girls don't get vaccinated. And there is information on possible side effects with the consent form.
Posted by Candide, Thursday, 28 August 2008 11:53:21 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy