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The Forum > Article Comments > The issue of dying > Comments

The issue of dying : Comments

By David Palmer, published 26/6/2008

In Victoria this week euthanasia advocates press their case on the body politic. But there is no 'right to end life'.

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So Runner, you wont be attending the Catholic Youth jamboree in Sydney!

Assuming you are a male your prinicples are respected, but when you can give birth to a child, your comments on abortion are meaningless!
Posted by Kipp, Thursday, 26 June 2008 4:56:30 PM
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Well I am dutch and I must say this article is a bit misleading. You must be terminally ill and of sound mind when requesting euthanasia. It also has to be requested several times.

Mere depression doesn't qualify you for an early exit. Perhaps the 50% of people who died and had depression were depressed because of their terrible suffering and terminal illness.

"9% of intentional deaths were caused by euthenasia". According to the Dutch central bureau of statistics the percentage of euthanasia in total deaths in 2005 was 2.2%. See (In Dutch) http://statline.cbs.nl/StatWeb/publication/?VW=T&DM=SLNL&PA=71439ned&D1=a&D2=a&D3=a&HD=080626-0828&HDR=T&STB=G2,G1

This Lancet survey of European countries based on a smaller sample size had the percentage in 2003 as 2.59. http://image.thelancet.com/extras/03art3298web.pdf You'll note that Holland has correspondingly less cases of "Alleviation of pain and symptoms with possible life-shortening effect"

Framing euthanasia legislation is tricky as you must clearly define consent and quality of life. Unlike say a blood alcohol limit these are not easily measured. Not being a lawyer I won't make any suggestions there.

I have had family members depart both ways. Would you prefer to die at home surrounded by your family or after a few weeks more suffering, strapped to a machine in a ward full with strangers?

Dying is a very personal thing and I am sure that given a choice people will want to do it in different ways. We all do it at some point. Why should atheists have to suffer in the same way Christians do?

If we have no "right to die" we must have a "duty to live". No one is immortal but with medical technology we can extend life well beyond its natural term. However at some point the quality of life becomes minimal.

When our pets are terminally ill and suffer unbearably we do the humane thing and put them to sleep. Ironically if humans are terminally ill and suffer unbearably we submit them to advanced medical technology to draw out their death and extend their suffering.
Posted by gusi, Thursday, 26 June 2008 5:23:52 PM
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Here we go again:
I've lost count of the number of times I have posted on the subject since 2005,
I find the objection to legalising suicide in certain instances invariably arises from that element in our society whose religious belief urges them to resist any attempt at rational thought about the rights of the terminally ill to choose their time place and means of dying with dignity.
I have concluded that apart from the biblical texts that are trotted out and the invoking of God's will,the main drive is to preserve fear and ignorance about death.
After all, it is often the fear of dying and the 'wish' for eternal life that helps preserve church heirarchy .

Death is the final part of the journey of life we need to understand this and embrace it. We are still allowed to grieve the loss of loved ones dying prematurely but that does not mean we should stand in their way when they choose to end an existence of pain and suffering.
Posted by maracas, Thursday, 26 June 2008 5:31:01 PM
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It is all very simple really. If I find myself in a position of unbearable pain with a terminal illness I certainly, do not want some self-righteous religious fanatic who has sold her/his mind to an un-evidenced belief they will live forever, to make my decisions for me. That is how the vast majority of Australian think and politicians in our secular democracy have only one choice and that is to implement a system where voluntary euthanasia is a choice.

The sanctimonious amongst us do not have to avail themselves of the service but they have absolutely no right to impose their own particular views onto those who think differently.

To do otherwise is known as tyranny, and it is the hallmark of religion.

Jonathon
Posted by Jonathon Byrd, Thursday, 26 June 2008 6:23:56 PM
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Hi David Palmer, long time no see since your abortion article :)

Do you think it is more humane to
a) force patients to suffer unbearably against their will with no positive outlook until they die a possibly slow, painful and lonely death, or
b) allow them to choose a soft, quick and peaceful death in the presence of their loved ones?

Two persons I personally know have been approved for euthanasia. One didn't go ahead with it because she kept postponing the date and died the night before she booked her euthanasia.

Last week, a 35-year-old family friend opted for euthanasia after a three-year struggle with cancer. She underwent all kinds of treatment, from chemo to radiation therapy and two operations.
She had a loving husband and a 4-year-old daughter.
Her specialist told her that there was no more treatment available, and that her cancer was terminal, giving her no more than 2 months to live.
She suffered much pain despite high doses of pain relief that made her feel nauseous and dizzy. She was bed ridden and needed fulltime care.
To have her euthanasia application approved her GP and oncologist consulted with her and her husband. She also, on request of her husband, went for a second opinion from another oncologist before the euthanasia was approved.
She, in her own bed surrounded by her husband, daughter and parents, and semi-covered under a pile of soft, cuddly toys as a last gift from her daughter, died very peacefully and without pain.

Do you think that her decision was wrong and she should have been forced to suffer for another two months?

Doctors have two distinct duties to their patients. The first is to relieve suffering and the second is to preserve life.
But what if the doctor is not able to relieve the suffering and/or to preserve life, in case of terminal illness?

http://www.minvws.nl/en/folders/ibe/euthanasia_the_netherlands_new_rules.asp Click the link at the bottom for the euthanasia pdf brochure

Dear Fractelle,
I wish your mother all the best, I hope the operation was successful.
Posted by Celivia, Thursday, 26 June 2008 6:39:47 PM
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I have never understood why so many christians are so terrified of dying.
Why do they grieve? Why do they cry and moan at funerals?
My father's house has many mansions.
So many beliefs of the various christian churches are extremely hard to find in the gospels.
If 'Do unto others..." is the penultimate law, let me die with dignity.
How can we claim any concept of freedom, if we don't own our own bodies?
Posted by Grim, Thursday, 26 June 2008 7:47:31 PM
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