Many in this forum and others have been told over and over again that Indonesia is not a signatory to the refugee convnetion, that they send people back to danger or lock them up in hell holes where they have to pay bribes to get out.

The only "authorities" in the UNHCR who might be in Indonesia are paid for by us, the housing is paid for by us, there is no safety in Indonesia for refugees and never has been.

That is why the people had to keep moving on to Australia.

Now I don't know if you really mean that people deserve to drown, or be ship wrecked or locked up because of what you percieve as process but Australian law says that anyone is allowed to turn up in Australia from anywhere in the world, without papers, and ask for refugee protection.

Anything else you want to babble on about and spew out hatred about is deranged, cruel and ugly and I want you to rack off back to where you came from.

Kapeesh?

Waiting at home for the mailman to deliver advice on an application for immigration is not quite the same as living anonymously in a makeshift tent city with tens of thousands of others.

An immigrant is not necessarily a refugee.

How far would YOU go to escape such an existence?

"Your argument fails because it is based on sentimentality, lacks natural justice (the natural justice due to those refugees who patiently wait in queues around the world) only to pander and reward the abuses inflicted by queue jumpers."

In response to that, may I say Col, that, when boiled right down, your argument is based on Western supremacy - the attitude that, as I am bigger and stronger that you, I win.

I also notice that you only play the libertarian card when you, and similarly minded people, benefit from it.

As is obvious to anyone who has been in a desperate situation, one can't just navel-gaze and do things in a predictable manner. One sometimes has to show resourcefulness - in fact, isn't this the sort of trait you laud? Isn't defending the right to one's liberty from squalor and oppression the ultimate form of libertarianism?

According to a UNHCR report last week less than 1 percent of
the world’s refugees are resettled by third countries. That leaves more than 99 percent of refugees without a permanent and safe home for themselves or their children. While the global situation for refugees remains so hopeless we will of course continue to see people resorting to desperate measures to find safe and peaceful lives. The reality is that most people will die waiting patiently for a resettlement place.

According to UNHCR, at the end of 2007 there were '11.4 million refugees outside their countries and 26 million others displaced internally by conflict or persecution ... contributing to an unprecedented number of uprooted people under the care of the UN refugee agency.'

UNHCR also estimate that there are around 12 million stateless people worldwide.

So if people here have a problem with refugees arriving by boat it might be useful if they work on finding solutions for the lack of resettlement options around the world.

Anyone supporting refugees in Australia is of course aware of those people waiting for resettlement in camps and other unsafe situations. Most refugees I deal with in Australia live regularly with news of the death of relatives back in their homelands or in neighboring camps. Many people working with refugees are in contact with people in those situations in other countries, as well as with people who have managed to get out and find a way to Australia.

The very negative comments about refugees on this forum indicate that not many people here are atually dealing with refugees every day or understand what they have been through.
Susan Metcalfe

Banjo “I have encounted MS and her cronies before and they are impervious to reason.”

I too am impervious to the sentimental bulldust and faux-compassion they cloak themselves in, thanks Banjo (and thanks for the ‘good luck’ tag)

RobP “In response to that, may I say Col, that, when boiled right down, your argument is based on Western supremacy - the attitude that, as I am bigger and stronger that you, I win.”

No, despite what is obviously your skewed perception of my values and the matter at hand, I have stated and endeavour to play the “we have laws which should be applied blindly to all” argument.

“I also notice that you only play the libertarian card when you, and similarly minded people, benefit from it.”

Really?

So that explains my view on abortion?

Which I can assure you, as a male, I am never going to “benefit” from.

“Isn't defending the right to one's liberty from squalor and oppression the ultimate form of libertarianism?”

Not when "Pnes Right" is demanded with total disregard and hubris toward the people, community and country I wish to join (Good aspirations never come forth from bad acts).

You are trying to deflect reasoning and turning your argument into a mild attack on my character.

I answered your argument objectively, I suggest you respond in kind, rather than sinking into Marilyn’s cesspool.

Marilyn Shepherd “Anything else you want to babble on about and spew out hatred about is deranged, cruel and ugly and I want you to rack off back to where you came from.”

The only one ‘spewing hatred” is you. I imagine you sat at your computer, foam dripping from your mouth, like a rabid dog ready to tear the throat out of anyone who counters your maniacal opinion.

Please read what you wrote and ponder, does your post represent the least compelling of any argument which could ever be presented?

Keep it up Marilyn, Noel Coward sang a song about us….

“Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun”

Col, refugees are human beings in dreadful circumstances and your hatred for them is beneath contempt.

Go away, go back to another country that loves bigots and thugs like you.

Go on. Piss off. If your family had been murdered, if Saddam Hussein was the leader of the government and you were forced to flee what would you do?

You applied to come here from a safe country. So did millions of others. Amal did not have such a luxury and I find your hatred for a woman who died is repulsive.

And if Cocker sang a song just for me aren't I lucky but I am not a mad dog nor and Englishman. I presume you are both.