We are talking about what future historians will make of the Iraq illegal intervention, Mr PaulL and Mr Right.

Not about Mr Bush and his Generals successfully offering to put typical two-timer Sunnis on the US pay-roll.

Remember these are the same sorts of Sunnis whom Donald Rumsfeld did deals with when Saddam declared war on Iran in 1981, the Americans even supplying chemical weapons.

Also take note that Saddam's Sunni two-timer militia, after being defeated by Bush, can easily be proven to be on the side of bin Laden's Al Quida while it suited them.

Reckon it could be much safer to trust the Shias, even though the majority do belong to Iran.

Paul L

Well well, I am choking. We absolutely agree on everything in Iraq. Just goes to show there is hope for both of us ... eh?

Bushbred

None of us are sears in our own lifetimes. Like the US electorate and historians I'll wait a generation before assessing any judgement of Bush, Rumsfield and the US actions in Iraq. Safer I think. And quite different from supporting their actions just as are opinions of comdemnation. Cheers.

Bushbred

>>” We are talking about what future historians will make of the Iraq illegal intervention”

Firstly, it seems you have already made up your mind regarding how it will be viewed, because the war has sinmply NOT been ruled to be illegal. Secondly, the topic is “The progress of defeat: the withdrawal of Australian forces : Comments”. This is not the same as “how will future historians view the Iraq war”.

History is not an end in itself except to academic w@nkers. History has a primary utilitarian role as the informer of policy. In that sense, policy is the both the master, and the raw material, of history.

>>” Not about Mr Bush … offering to put typical two-timer Sunnis on the US pay-roll.

You seem to be entirely unaware that you are being a bigot by smearing a whole sect with the misdeeds of a few. This would be totally unacceptable and someone from the left would have pulled you up on it were you not part of the soft-left cheer squad.

>>” Remember these are the same sorts of Sunnis whom Donald Rumsfeld did deals with ..in 1981,”

WTF? The support that America gave to Iraq was given to the regime of Saddam Hussein, not to the Sunni’s of Iraq. That you cannot see a difference is very disturbing.

BTW, America’s support for Iraq only became tangible when it looked as if Iran might march into Baghdad and install another Islamic republic after the retreat to the border of 1982.

“The Iranian Chief-of-Staff said “the war would continue until Saddam Hussein is overthrown.” Khomeini on the issue of a truce said "There are no conditions. The only condition is that the regime in Baghdad must fall and must be replaced by an Islamic Republic." Indeed American ambiguity towards which side to support was summed up by Kissinger when the American statesman remarked that "it's a pity they both can't lose.

According to Iraq's report to the UN, the know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained from China, Germany, UK, France and the US.

Please wake up to history, Paull.

Most of the problems in the Middle East, including much Islamic terrorism caused by anger not only against Israeli nuclear rocket potential, but against a Western populace which would let Pax Americana be world master or mistress, rather than a United Nations which truly ethically shaped may not bring about a Kantian Perpetual Peace, but very close to it.

Such of course, would also ethically preclude a miserable but deadly little Israel which has enough atomic power right now with its over three hundred loaded rockets to blow apart the whole Middle East.

To me that certainly does not sound like a recipe for Perpetual Peace in our world.

PaulL, seems those Sunni Shaiks you admire so much, have now been given the keys back to Baghbad. Certainly Saddam must now be smiling in his grave.

Certainly the two-timer Sunnis over the last few years have certainly broken a record.

Maybe the Bush regime before it moves out might forgive the whole lot of them, including bin Laden's al Quaida, which helped the Americans get the Soviets out of Afghanistan, in any case.

In fact, could really wonder how these support changes might go down in history, possibly giving reminder of the Jew Shylock who by paying obeisance to the Roman General Pontius Pilate, was later able to have Pilate give the order for the crucifixion of CHRIST

the Jew Shylock, who asked Pontius Pilate to give the order for Christ to be crucified. gave the order for Jesus of Nazareth t