Romany,

You are actually buying fresh food in China.

What about the human waste used by Chinese farmers to fertilise their produce?

My wife was in China recently, and had the use of both solid and liquid human waste confirmed by her guide.

MrRight.
I'm sure it happens here as in other first world countries. As I said, however, I am surrounded by the fields in which our produce grows and pass through them daily - believe me, if such methods were being used the entire university and surrounds would go out on a hunger strike!

On the subject of waste, however, did you know that the worlds largest cow dung methane plant is here in China? The energy generated from it daily generates 30,000kwt hours of power and in fact is the sole energy source for the entire area?

Bronwyn, your last paragraph says volumes, not to mention glass fibres being used in all the insulation materials for air con/roof batts etc. The nouveau asbestos in years to come.

Fresh fruit and veggies here in the Top End are a joke. The only place to get half decent stuff (organic or naturally grown)is the Parap markets,(Sat) or Rapid Creek & Nightcliff markets(Sun) on the weekends. Limited quantities - first in, first served.

The Coles/Woolies option is mostly just second grade stuff shipped (trucked up) from down south that no one else would accept there. Time after time I have complained in writing to the "Fresh Produce Managers" asking them to remove the garbage they ask top dollar for on their shelves.

As a refrigeration mechanic I understand the issues that storage and transport pose for the companies... but really they don't give a hoot because of the lack of competition up here. Most of the local produce grown here gets trucked south and then repackaged and then a limited volume is trucked back up again...reverse logic?

There was an independent fruiterer here some years back, but fuel and shop running costs were among the main reasons for Marty's closing down.

Where to go from here...? Only certain produce will grow here due to the Wet Season and the sheer volume of water in the ground then.

Romany, thats very interesting about the cow dung plant, so often we're told how bad farming is for the environment primarily because of such releases. I know some farms in the UK have been suppling themselves with power, but not on that scale.

On your earlier question, I'm a bit sceptical of organic benefits, and the ability to feed the masses should we all turn organic. The broadacre crops tend to yield about half of conventional under organic management, but I don't know too much about orchards and vegetable growing. In essence sending any produce off farm is exporting nutrients that have to be replaced from somewhere, organic only sends about half the produce so they'll be able to do that for longer. Some are using composts, manures etc but those inputs come from other land so again somewhere is depleting. It really isn't going to be feasible to return the human wastes from the Iraqis or whoever buy our wheats/produce so it's inevitable our nutrient cycle will have a whole. To be replaced by manufactured or mined fertilisers. If the answer is to export less by using organic then there are going to be a lot of hungry people.

The biggest fallacy is that organic means no chemicals. Not true,
http://organic.lovetoknow.com/Permitted_Chemicals_List_for_Organic_Farming

Copper sulphate is particularly toxic to fish, and does humans no favours:
http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/coppersu.htm

Thats not to say organic is worse than conventional, but I wouldn't say you are getting the benefits you pay for. just make sure you wash it all.

An experiment on wine drinking showed that the drinker enjoyed the wine from a $45 labelled bottle much more than the $5 labelled bottle, even though they were both from the same $5 bottle. Perhaps the exponents of organic food expect it to be better, and consequently believe it is.

Albie

I was sorry to read of your difficulties in obtaining fresh produce. I've heard rumblings from the Big is Best brigade that the north is to become our new food bowl as climate change further dries the south. Just hang in there and all your problems will be solved! And no doubt replaced with a whole bunch of new ones you never dreamed of!

"Bronwyn, your last paragraph says volumes, not to mention glass fibres being used in all the insulation materials for air con/roof batts etc. The nouveau asbestos in years to come."

Yes, it's always good to encounter like minds! It was concerning though to read of the glass fibres. We were very careful with most choices we made when we built, but that was one choice where I didn't think it mattered that much if we went for the less natural and cheaper option. So I appreciate the notice and will do some research on it.

Rojo

Appreciated the information in your post regarding the complexities of maintaining the nutrient cycle.

"If the answer is to export less by using organic then there are going to be a lot of hungry people."

Over population, climate change and denuded soils mean that unfortunately millions of people will go hungry regardless of how much the exporting countries ramp up production. The whole idea that we have to export our over production to them to begin with is false economy in so many ways. Millions of subsistence farmers whose families had for generations fed themselves from their small plots have been forced from their land, over two hundred million in China alone. Millions more small time farmers are indebted to multinational conglomerates like Monsanto who have completely eroded any autonomy the land once gave them. They've been forced into the fertilizer/pesticide cycle and are locked into paying for expensive inputs they'd never needed before. They aren't even permitted to save their own seed. Of course, the egg is scrambled now. I can't envisage any going back, but I do question your assumption that it's up to us to feed the world. Many of these people you're referring to fed themselves quite adequately before the World Bank and other international bodies began interfering and dictating terms.

"Perhaps the exponents of organic food expect it to be better, and consequently believe it is."

No, Rojo, it's much more than a case of mind over matter. Food that hasn't been subjected to chemical spraying, artificial fertilizers, irradiation, long-term storage and long travelling distances does retain more of the nutrients nature intended.

I agree that some organic food might be subjected to these same poor practices, especially that sold from the big chains, but even so it is probably still more nutritious than that grown and marketed conventionally. A lot of people who buy organic food are also careful to source locally grown and seasonal produce when they have the choice, in which case they are definitely obtaining more nutrients in their food than they would in conventional supermarket food.