Loudmouth,

“Black Hawk cast his eyes upon cornfields”

“which the Sauks have . . . cultivated for so many winters that our memory cannot go back to them. . . . They [white men] are now running their plows through our graveyards, turning up the bones and ashes of our sacred dead, whose spirits are calling to us from the land of dreams for vengeance on the despoilers. Will the descendants of Nanamakee and our other illustrious dead stand idly by and suffer this sacrilege to be continued?” (Vanderwerth,, p.89 in Johansen)

-What we have here is a spiritual not a financial obscenity regarding the North American aboriginals, The Black Hawk. What is required is Atonement not Compensation.

Historically, native Americans own words:

“What is this you call property? It cannot be the earth. For the land is our mother, nourishing all her children . . . birds, fish, and all men. The woods, the streams, everything on it belongs to everybody and is for the use of all. How can one man say it belongs to him only? (Waters, p. 28)"

-Note the qualification “everyone”, Black and White. Humans are children of “Mother Earth”, which is, Loudmouth, not something to bought and sold.

“As he [a Native American] described why the Lakotas have declined offers to sell the Black Hills, Black Elk returned to the same theme:

“The Wasi'chus [whites] went to some of the chiefs alone and got them to put their marks on the treaty. Maybe some of them did this when they were crazy from drinking the minne wakan [whiskey] the Wasi'chus gave them. But only crazy or very foolish men would sell their Mother Earth. (Black Elk, Black Elk Speaks, p,135)”

[Shapers of the Great Debate on Native Americans-Land, Spirit: Johansen, 2000.]

Loadmouth & Stephen, Deloria mentions the concept of "equitable occupancy", rather than “terra nullius” [nonsense] or compensation [sacrilege]. I think a treaty binding Whites and Blacks with Mother Earth would suit the Bill. Have you actually studied aboriginality? I’m Scottish and know little about the Celts compared to a non-Celtic anthropologist.

Loadmouth,

Loudmouth for one who wants to jump through the screen and attack me you are suddenly quiet. Youu obviously have no knowledge of traditional aboriginality.

Stephen,

What do you think of the concept of "equitable occupancy"? It would seem to address the nonsense of "terra nullius" and not commit the sacrilege of paying for the Land [Our Mother Earth].

Don't tell you a Sells, who just "posts and runs".

oliver [your post rates as number two in a search for the name ]

http://fair-use.org/benjamin-tucker/instead-of-a-book/land-occupancy-and-its-conditions

I think it points out a few cons in the concept ,like do we pay more rent for prime sites [to who?] who decides who is allowed to use which 'prime land' who the swamp, what about spoilage [polution] , or squatering but not using to the greater good and those holding a legal [paid up or debt laden but defacto] title now.

Its a difficult thing ,no one owns the land [this is a trueism] ,but by the same token land security and best use is a must ,but better and sustainable and responsable land use must figure in there some where.

As it is govt is controlled by an intrenched beurocratic elite , who have little clue appart from running the two party demon-autocracy to serve their own.

Indigenous have the same trible loyalties as do the elite who now control it all ,we all have the obligation to look after our own [it must be a nature/nurture reflex]

What is best [what is fair?]
http://www.kidsngrins.com/2008/05/09/lease-agreements

I used to have ideas ,but in time it was revealed its not so much a indiginous [indiginous means sans culture] problem but a class problem [we have all lost our culture], as well an expectation and equity problem [ALL LAND BELONGS TO GOD][we are all children of the one god]

Its the have it all versis the have nots]

http://www.metrokc.gov/auditor/1993/certpro.htm

Under old aboigonal way NO_ONE was allowed to take more than half a resourse [thus all ways half of some thing was left for the next person ,a good rule but how to apply it?]

As the poor child from imigrant stock well know the oppression of the AB-origonal ,is the same oppression served upon the worlds poor

[Just as some aborigonal have become elivated into a quasi middle class
[but far and wide the many remain below [even ] the oppressed neo [new] people to these indigenant lands.

http://www.facsia.gov.au/Guides_Acts/ssg/ssguide-4/ssguide-4.6/ssguide-4.6.3/ssguide-4.6.3.50.html

Stephen,

This venue is not a Bulletin Board it is Forum. You are meant to partipate. Same goes for Peter Sellick. Your views are worthy, so share them, in discussion, not merely as broadcasts.

I thought you would be intersted in want the Native Americans has to say about Land.

Loudmouth,

You've gone quiet give I am a Humanist not a racist. I am intrested in aboriginals rights to the extent of protecting ancient rites again contemporary aboriginals defacing these true rites, with distorted rights.

Cheers,

Oly.

Stephen,

Sorry about the earlier mispelling of your name -just noticed it.

I fins it amazing that you guys ignore you traditional values for mony. Money is a issue. See the historical quotes from the North American ingenous peoples. I think they are very insight for and relevant to Aboriginal Australians. Tradition needs to be separated from Government help. Both stand-alone.

With regards to preliterate cultures there has been very interesting studies conducted by anthopologists on the importance of ancestors to maintain continuity in the absence of written histories. Seven cultures across the worls have been studied, including Australian.

If you and Loudmouth are disinterested in your own culture and want just money, forget about the anthrpologists, read Warren Buffett.