Yvonne I agree that learning other languages is OK,but let's not get too carried away with their importance.My daughter speaks Spanish/ Portugese and loves the South American culture.There are thousands of languages and dialects on the planet but only a few matter in the real world of economics.Mandarin will be the next one,but English which is made up of many languages,will be around long enough to stick in the craw of Anglo haters.A storm in a tea cup,really.

Yvonne,

Agreed! Knowing another language makes worlds larger. But failing to learn and understand the ideas that formed and developed the culture behind the language, even though initially appearing panoramic, leaves a world view a poor tunnel vision. Including native English speakers of English.

I challenged 'Doolan (to) show me a set of readings as comprehensive and as deep from any or all of the cultures ...'
If he can, I'll learn the languages to read them. If he can’t then I'll settle for translations of those that show great ideas that add something of major significance in the categories I cited.

'Why English speakers are so resistant is a mystery to me. You are depriving yourself of much. Even just one other language.'

To be consistent this would apply to those who haven't yet learned English ... Wouldn't it?

I’ve advocated the learning of Latin in our schools ... for exactly the same reason you suggest I bush up on Greek. (Unfortunately Greek won’t work as most of the works I cited were passed to us written in Latin).

Yvonne, I think you might have more in common with me and my thinking than with the Western loathing, comrade mil-observer. He has a habit of making unsubstantiated irrelevant assertions. This is another example. Previously he injected race into a discussion of culture and language. Now it' the politics of hate and envy into a discussion of intellectual endeavour and achievement.

We’re all agreed learning languages does improve intellect. However I’m inclined towards thinking, since I don’t seem to have any seen any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that languages other than European languages, especially those influenced by Latin, might not achieve that result. Can you provide any? (Except some Indigenous language speakers, I know.)

Kevin is a prime example supporting my inclination. Intellectually he’s lightweight in comparison to French speaking Downer. Mil-observer bought up this political angle. He overlooked who was closest to kissing butt … in a New York lap dancing joint.

Yvonne I'm afraid of very little… ( but little minds terrify me!).

Regards Keith

OK keith – maybe I should have said “crypto-racist” to describe you, as I suggested for that great Aussie super sleuth “Proud To Be Indonesian”, whose efforts at misrepresenting regional languages and people seem a neat counterpoint to your domestic efforts along the same lines. (for those not aware, check: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5900&page=0. It's quite a useful exercise in linguistic analysis)

Or was that “operation” another glowing triumph for Downer; the pedigree one we can call “French-speaking” in the way “Allo allo” is French historiography? His speech to the Press Club was tense, obviously just rehearsed, and the pronunciation appalling.

A bit like the magnificent “42 asylum seekers” scenario, which you and PTBI swallowed hook, line and sinker? All that networking and hustling and holier-than-Iraqi-Freedom humanitarian cliche, for what? To wear a knockout sucker punch, all because you and your mates not only couldn't bother to try checking sources in the other language, but could hardly grasp them anyway.

And last: remember sophistry played a significant part in weakening Classical Hellenic culture into the time of the Peloponnesian War. Flagrant misrepresentation and other false argumentation corrupts and endangers a culture perhaps even worse than ignorance of neighbors' languages.

Good luck in your great western afterlife.

Just a thought:- perhaps those who don't speak another language and are growing hot under the collar at what they considered the slur therefore of being "ignorant" might benefit from learning more fully the English language?

A sentence above encapsulates what I think these posters are getting their bristles up about: "He went on to say we were ignorant BECAUSE OF the use, of the commutative form, English."

No. There is a world of difference between being labeled ignorant BECAUSE of something and being ignorant OF something. In the above instance the poster appears ignorant of the difference - and of correct punctuation. This is not to say the poster is an ignorant person. They might be a humanitarian rocket-scientist for all we know. However, they have mis-understood both the meaning of a particular word and of the application of a particular punctuation rule. There is absolutely no slur implied in this. We are all ignorant of many things in our lives: this says nothing whatsoever about our levels of intelligence, education or i.q.

If we don't admit it, however, it speaks volumes.

your probable write rommany.

Romany

On reflection

Doolan
‘”British readers are at least as ignorant as their American cousins.”
“What makes this all particularly upsetting is the stubborn pride we take in our own ignorance”
“…some British “literary” journalists, wallowing in their own ignorance,”
‘”. “They” know our literature too, but they also know their own literature, about which we are not only entirely ignorant - we are even ignorant of the fact that we are ignorant.”’
“English all too often simply ignores whatever is not English”

Keith
"He went on to say we were ignorant BECAUSE OF the use, of the commutative form, English."

Romany

'No. There is a world of difference between being labeled ignorant BECAUSE of something and being ignorant OF something.'

Isn’t Doolan saying English speakers are ignorant not only because of their exclusive attitude towards their native language and literature but also, and not exclusively as you suggest, they are ignorant of other languages, those languages literatures and their own ignorance?

Romany after a detailed analysis of Doolan’s comments and overall stance I think you might reconsider your analysis.

Comrade Mil-Observer

cannot you hold a discussion without descending into personal invective, grizzling and hateful propaganda?

Yvonne

I don’t think you could ever accept this type of ‘so-called’ discussion from comrade mil-observer. It would never meet your standards or with your approval.