Must say the last line in Ciaran’s essay added with a suggestion by John McCain that the US may have to stay in Iraq for years to come leaves one with a shaky feeling.

The gloom is especially so since though the US public is against much of America’s present foreign policy, they are unlikely to elect a female as President nor a black.

Looking back not so many years since the end of Soviet Russia, it seemed we were headed for a brighter future with lost wars like Vietnam turning people not against us but a wish to absorb part of our Western culture, as was done with Malaysia, now Indonesia, and mixed with the friendliness shown from India and China, all no doubt helped by the idea of the wonderful Marshall Plan after WW2, in which we forgave the people of Germany and Japan, rather than the dreaded way a beaten Germany was treated after WW1 with the Treaty of Versailes.

It seems the world has lost the ability to reason, lost the ability to admit to each other that each side must share the blame, which university academics write so much about but whom the public call left-wing looneys.

With the Republicans back in power in the US, one will be glad he is near the end of a lucky life, hoping to somehow join whom was the most wonderful wife, but so sad that much of the philosophy and reasoning that is readily available still in this world has been given the go-by apparently in the love of conquest, as still seems the ambitions of certain world leaders and their smaller national accomplicesses

I don't think it makes much difference who gets elected President.

All will have an expansionist and interventionist foreign policy or will be driven to adopt one. It is the nature of the beast. US imperialism is forced to dominate militarily around the world to retain its top economic position.

Having illusions in Obama is like having illusions in the ALP - they get your hopes up only to dash them in power as they run (and must do so, given the nature of the parliamentary process) the system - or rather manage the system - for the interests of capital.

If elected Obama will do the same.If he is a successful politician he may be able to balance that out with measures seen as beneficial for his supporters. That is partly what made Howard successful. He was able to bring on board a range of people who were not in his natural constituency with polices and programs that provided benefits to them. But he did not create the underlying conditions which gave him th ability to do that. He rode them.

Obama will be in a different situation. The US economy is weakening, and may continue to weaken. If not in recession it is anaemic and may stay that way for some time. So the base for spending (unless there is a fundamental re-ordering of priorities away from wars and big business, (which may be possible in relation to Iraq, but not much else), Obama won't be able to spread much largess, let alone halt the decline in job losses and improve living standards of thsoe on the minimum wage and other lowly paid workers.

Least of all will he be able to overcome the systemic racism in the US. You can only do that by challenging the very structures which create that disempowerment and poverty and Obama is certainly not going to do that.

It is a bit like Australia - the choices are really Tweedledee and Tweedledum on the big issue of retaining and strengthening the system that George W Bush gave political expression to.

I was surprised to read Ronald Reagan’s enduring influence but then thought again.

Reagan initiated the ideal of small government, which Bush1 and Clinton inherited.

Reagan initiated the Star Wars deterrent which brought down the corrupt “Evil Empire”, which had enslaved millions and cast its dark shadow across the rest of the world, since the end of WWII.

(I always liked SW, it proved a deterrent does not have to work or even exist to produce a result, it proved that fear of it as an idea in the minds of the enemy is enough and RR, who was seen as more the statesman, with the philosophical virtues at his side than a simple politician, looking for reelection, was the perfect leader to use it.)

The democrats have to go back to Kennedy to find anyone with a reputation to talk about and then, only if they ignore his sexual proclivities (like Clinton). Most have forgotten the big Peanut (Carter) and LBJ is associated with another war, his work on racial integration largely forgotten.

Passy “strengthening the system that George W Bush gave political expression to.”

Yes, the winning system, the system which prevailed over the swill of the left. The system which respects the individual to achieve in their own name and does not force them to aspire on ly to the level prescribed by the state.

So much more superior a system to anything the left has produced, regardless of the emotional rhetoric and lies of equality.

Col Rouge, as reason became a balance for faith under Aquinas, so reason is practised in our universities to bring commonsense to those who would use individualism to create elitism, spoiling a great gift to be used harmoniously rather than autocratically.

It is the right-wing US elitism you seem to support so much that we are so worried about, Col, especially with Bush and Cheney at the helm.

Indeed, if you believe this troubled world now needs years of American occupation in the Middle East, matey, reckon you need to do a course in International Relations in one of the left-wing Uni's you seem to hate so much

bushbred "Indeed, if you believe this troubled world now needs years of American occupation in the Middle East, matey, reckon you need to do a course in International Relations in one of the left-wing Uni's you seem to hate so much"

I do not know you from a dog dropping, refering to me in the familiar (matey) might conform with your sense of comradry but it does nothing for me.

I have a qualification equivalent to a Master's degree. If you want to waste your time being indoctrinated with the left wing crap , feel free but I "reckon" I have a living to earn and a life to lead.

I do not care what you "reckon" you should do. Under the system of government I support you are free to follow whatever twaddle takes your fancy and I "reckon" that is fair.

I hate no one, that people waste their HECs on learning the loopy is their stupid mistake but still their right.

Given a choice between a democratic/capitalist governmental model and the murderous and stinking cesspool, which results from the naive delusions of socialist left, I will take, with all its faults, the democratic/capitalist model.

If you do not like it, I suggest you consider migration to North Korea, it is a classic of the result of left wing socialist drivel and you can starve for as long as your body holds out.

Have you heard of the way NK prisoners are forced to kneel all day long - not quite as bad as Stalins gulags nor Lenins mass starvations but not much better either.

"Must say the last line in Ciaran’s essay added with a suggestion by John McCain that the US may have to stay in Iraq for years to come leaves one with a shaky feeling." -bushbred

General Cosgrove sais that we could be in Iraqi for decades, only days after Bush's victory speech from the US warship.

The Zealots fought the Romans for at least two hundred years, with serious wars in the 60s & 130s.

Jane Goodall is correct in saying our enemy has the ability of the Arab leadership to leverage the poor & ignorant through religion.Hence, the US and Oz should try address poverty and literacy, else it will go on and on and on

Col,

I have thought interesting Britain attacked Hitler/Germany, over the latter's invasion of Poland. But immediately WWII Britian didn't attack Stalin/Russia, when the latter quarantined Poland, ensuring millions of innocent deaths.

The American's stopped the Russians from taking Hokkaido, Japan, in the Pacific theatre: It dropped an A-Bomb on Nagasaki, as a demonstration of its power.

The shaky feeling is about Iran, Oliver.

Without a nuclear strike, certainly Iran will be no walkover.

Remember it was Rumsfeld who backed Saddam's attack on Iran in the early 1980's.

It was eight years after that Iran had Saddam on the run, Iraq forced to suggest an Armistice.

There is also the worry that Iran could already have atomic warheads already sneaked out from Russia?

Also surely you are not naive enough to believe that an extended occupation would not be more than a bit about America running out of oil as well, apart from Putin's Russia the rest of the world as well.

Also reckon your suggestions about the benefits of a long US military ME occupation, are far too simplistic, mate?

Cheers - BB, WA.

Oliver “But immediately WWII Britian didn't attack Stalin/Russia, when the latter quarantined Poland, ensuring millions of innocent deaths.”

I noted you made a similar comment on another thread.

Let us consider several points

1 Russia was an ally against Hitler, following Hitler’s invasion of the Ukraine.
2 Britain had been at war for 5 years, it was economically and physically exhausted by the exertion. It could not sustain further battle fronts without the commitment and support of USA.
3 the attitude of the Americans leaned toward a European treaty more than extending a European war.

Do not underestimate that between Truman, his predecessor Roosevelt and Churchill, Churchill was the one who understood more the corrupt character of Stalin at a time the successive US presidents seemed to hope for the best. Churchill was opposed by Stalin from commencing an earlier D day when the US Agreed with Stalin on initiating the Italian campaign first.

4 the US placed great hope in the successor to the League of Nations, the United Nations.
5 A European war would not have suited the French.
6 A European war would have turned a broken Germany into an even greater charnel house of sustained and endless misery.

Making simplistic judgments to what might have been more righteous and more loathsome is the first pursuit of hindsight. It is not the sort of indulgence which time permits when dealing with national economies and what is called “the art of the possible” (politics).

Doubtless, had things been different and the WWII had been resolved in 1941 instead of 1945, something different response to the Russian re-occupation of Poland from Britain might have been forthcoming but the time was not to be like that.

The other point comparing the Europe theatre to the Pacific theatre is Japan was an island nation separate to the mainland of Asia. That has differences to dropping it on a continent partly occupied by “allies” and the consequences are unknown (never having been dropped in anger before). Not withstanding, “the bombs” were not in inexhaustible supply.

Bushbred

The Malayan War started 1945 - the Malay Communist Emergency wasn’t declared over until 1960, two years after Malaya had gained its independence. Incidentally, the new Malay government placed under contract all the colonial officers previously answerable to Whitehall - there wasn’t even a hiccup - business continued exactly as prior to Merdeka.

As you know from another post, I lived for seven years under Malay Emergency - indeed I described an “incident” - not against any colonials, but against their own people. Whilst conflict was euphemistically referred to as an “emergency” it was, in fact, a bloody, full-scale guerilla war and the Brits used everthing in it. Some war-historians deem it a civil war.

Despite the Malay Emergency being declared officially over, having lost its rationale as liberating Malaya from colonial rule, conflict resumed not long after, until a peace treaty between communists and the Malay government was signed in 1989. A total of some THIRTY-FOUR years.

During my time in Malaya I met a communist sympathiser who stated that after Malaya, they would be liberating Australia and all “the white coolies.” I assume he was citing the “domino theory”.

Some time after returning to Australia I had the misfortune to come into contact with academic left-wing loonies. Without any hesitation I can state that they are the most stupidest people that I have ever met - even now, and I am in my seventh decade. Not one would have any practical knowledge of communism.

So appalling was their ignorance that there wasn’t even a point at where any discussion could take place. Furthermore, none of these lefties would have experienced anything more stressful than losing their car keys.

To actually know that our government pays them good money to sprout such stupidity, makes me angry. I believe in freedom of speech - but not government funded - our taxes. What next? The earth really is flat; Creationism.

(cont from above ..)

Certainly, teach comparative political philosophy - all the isms - at university; but not left-wing loonie propoganda. Let students decide for themselves.

To add a little something to this debate. I was recently speaking with a Chinese Malay, who said that the Chinese are quite concerned, as are other non-Malay races, about the next Malay election. A standing candidate is “strongly” Islamic and dislikes other races who are not.

Col,

Thank you for your informed post. I am aware of most of that history. When writing, I was thinking of the ideals involved, not the economics. Busy I will come back with more detail soon.

Cheers,

O.

Do partly agree with your experience in Malaysia, Danielle, but despite all you say, Malaysia is still regarded now as a successful nation, having discovered her own Democratic Way herself, just as Vietnam now has, and as Indonesia is attempting, not suffering from a Bush-Cheney-style takeover, as with Iraq, and what still might be tried on Iran before Bush goes out.

Must say I did not come down in the last shower, Danielle, one who has been praised even by American tutors as having good insight which means not one to follow like a sheep, as Blair and Howard did with Bush.

Such means, Danielle, to regard the US presence now in Iraq as dangerous for the future of the world, little
Israel with her viperish nuclear sting only making things far worse.

There has to be a better and fairer way, Danielle, my insight on to me all the time about it, even believing that like Vietnam, if left mostly alone, especially as regards Western oil companies, even Islam will see the benefits.

bushbred,

I am sure you did not come down in the last shower and, indeed, have had all sorts of fascinating and interesting experiences.

An aside: I admire those who keep studying until mentally unable or until they drop off the twig ...

However, back to business ...

It was General Sir Gerald Templar, Military High Commissioner, who introduced equal voting rights and land rights to the Chinese in Malaya (3.12 million Chinese), also introduced and coined the phrase "winning the hearts and minds of the Malayan people."

Sir Gerald outlined the plan for decolonization of Malaya. However, he saw it imperative that the Communist Emergency be put down before decolonization could take place. As he and his wife were close friends of my stepfather and mother, I knew his hopes for equalities - indeed democracy -for Malay's numerous peoples first-hand.

Despite the introduction of equal voting rights and land rights, the communists continued with their own agenda - and it was certainly not democracy.

Incidentally, I made an error in the previous post, I stated erroneously : "A total of some THIRTY-FOUR years" - it was in fact a total of some FORTY-FOUR years.

The leftie loonies I encountered had absolutely no idea of the realities on the ground. Their information was so defective, they patently weren't reading the news- papers (and in English) which were coming out of Malaya.

If they knew of the horrific numbers of civilians being killed and terrorised, undoubtedly, these lefties would have come out with trite comments such as "omelettes and eggs". I'm sure Stalin thought in such terms ...

They were in such a parallel universe about events in Malaya as to prevent any meeting point in discussion.

More civilians were killed than both Malay and British military personnel together.

Indeed on estimate, every three communist terrorists killed at least one civilian.

Now, bushbred, tell me about the virtues and rational thinking of left loonies. Perhaps it is the poor quality chardonnet (wood alcohol) they drink. State just one plank exclusive to them which has great merit.

Oliver,

You are correct about the issues of poverty and literacy.

Whilst Arab countries are amongst the most wealthiest in the world, they also are among those with the highest illiteracy rates.

I attach small extracts from the following document which addresses the need for changes of policies regarding education and employment.

Whilst the population in the West is both declining and aging, that in the Arab regions is not which can have considerable worldwide implications

I apologise for providing the full web address as the original pdf. no longer accesses this document.

DEMOGRAPHIC TRANSITION AND ITS IMPLICATIONS ON EMPLOYMENT AND INTERNATIONAL MIGRATION
Batool Shakoori *
*Team Leader, Population and Development Team, Social Development Division, UN-ESCWA, Bierut, Lebanon.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:jCQNJ3xzGPIJ:www.un.org/esa/population/meetingsfourthcoord2005 P07_ESCWA.pdf+%22Arab+population%22+%2B
+projected+increase&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=14&client=safari

... In the Arab region, the 15–24 age group, which represents the transition period from childhood to adulthood in most societies, totalled 33 million in 1980, 58.3 million in 2000, and is projected to increase to 69.9 million and 78.3 million by 2010 and 2020, respectively...

The region’s working-age population in 1980 was 55.9 million, which increased by 52.8 million to reach a total of 108.7 million by the year 2000 and which is projected to grow to 149.6 million by 2010 and 194 million by 2020.

(International Family Planniong Perspective , V.28, #1 March 2002 , Thomas W. Merrick, Population and Poverty : New Views on an old Controversy)

... Such an unfortunate eventuality would reinforce the decision of people to migrate perhaps to unfavourable regional and world political environments, in which many young men and women may find themselves prone to criminal behaviour or to engaging in political conflicts out of frustration with the hopelessness of their lives.

(Saad Nagi, “Toward Integrated Social Policies in Arab Countries,” unpublished UNESCWA document, 2005)

Look out, Danielle, with your criticism of left-wing politics you seem to frown on much of the political leanings of our Aussie universities.

To me most of them do encourage what is known as sharing the blame, which though proud to have marksman printed in my paybook during WW2, I believe them when they talk about finding a way to share the blame in this world, especially between Christianity and Islam.

With what you have mentioned about your own life experiences, Danielle, it surprises me that you are so naive about what could happen in the Middle East with an attack on Iraq, for example, especially with little Israel involved.

And as far as left-wing is concerned, being farm-bred like Barnaby Joyce, I call myself an agrarian socialist, meaning through experience in the Great Depression, will move right or left for the good of the bush.

But I will swear different to you, I do believe left-wing academia is far superior to ultra-right wing academia, which you should know, my dear, what the Jewish people had to go through under the Nazis.

Yep, Danielle, reckon you should move more closer to centre, a better balance believing in sharing the blame for a better world.

Yep, though not a deep Christian, reckon that was what the young Jesus meant in the Sermon on the Mount.

Certainly his Love your Enemy means putting ourselves in the place of our enemies for a time, just as thoughts about Sharing the Blame with Middle East problems should entail.

Finally, Dannielle, can't say that I feel angry with you for telling me I've had my day - strangely enough it is you I feel sorry for.

Cheers - BB, WA

bushbred,

"An aside: I admire those who keep studying until mentally unable or until they drop off the twig ..."

... intended as a sincere compliment to you.

Where are our ultra-right wing academics? I won't provide my academic history - unless you want it. I will provide an example of a true academic ... let's say one who teaches Russian History (not my specific area incidentally).

Academics studying Russian History (necessarily including politics), were fluent in Russian. Those who rely on language know that there are subtlies and nuances that are not easily translated into another language. They were also expert in the various historical disciplines (some eight at least) - their study of Russian history was necessarily interdisciplinary - also steeped in philosophy and Russian political thought. I know of no Russian historian who has not spent quite some time in Russia doing research. They researched primary sources and material, cross-checking and verifying it with other sources; they also did this with with secondary material. They lived and breathed their discipline.

What do left-wing "academics" bring to the table. Patently they do no rigorous research, undoubtedly rely on secondary material - often written by those from other secondary sources, whilst clutching Lenin and Marx’s little blue books. Those I experienced had never set foot in Malaya, nor indeed met any Malay from any group.

Writing about Marx, Edward Crankshaw observed:

... He loved the people as animals, not as people. He pitied them, but he did not respect them. He was, in the last degree, a sentimentalist. He wanted to save the people from the dreadful tyranny of the Tsars—but in his way and no other ...

You state: “To me most of them do encourage what is known as sharing the blame ...”

IDEALLY, then, Iraq should be dismantled: An artificial state created by colonial interests, forcing disparate and antogonistic groups to live together - and a slab of Iran.

Iraq’s “political” structure over which Saddam ruled: Traditional tribal systems and customs; familial ties, relationships and loyalities; divisions of groups; economics, languages; religions.

cont ...

Saddam even had a lineage fabricated showing that he was a direct descendant of Mohammed - a necessary requirement for a leader of this multi-Islamic society.

When researching Islam and the Middle East, I rely primarily on academic works and research papers written by Muslims; also websites by Islamic intellectuals. who increasingly condemn their regimes. In Iran, the Islamic penal code permits the execution of 9 yr old little girls, and 15 yrs old boys.
http://www.fidh.org/IMG/pdf/ir_un2005a.pdf
The Death Penalty (p.4)

... stoning of women, execution of gays, teaching hatred to children. What about Arab Muslims killing other Arab Muslims/non-Muslims. Terrorism.

Any sound from the lefties? ....

Writer, Tawfik Hamid states:

... less happily, the non-Muslim priests of enlightenment in the West have come, actively and passively, to the Islamists’ defence. These “progressives” frequently cite the need to examine “root causes.” In this they are correct: Terrorism is only the manifestation of a disease and not the disease itself. But the root-causes are quite different from what they think:

Another Arab Muslim:

... it is ironic and discouraging that many non-Muslims, Western intellectuals-- who unceasingly claim to support human rights--have become obstacles to reforming Islam. Political correctness among Westerners obstructs unambiguous criticism of Shariah’s inhumanity. They find socioeconomic or political excuses for Islamist terrorism such as poverty, colonialism, discrimination or the existence of Israel. What incentive is there for Muslims to demand reform when Western “progressives” pave the way for Islamist barabarity?

Look up FREE IRAN and see what Iranian intellectuals and dissidents are saying
www.activistchat.com

The extracts I provided to Oliver were by Arab researchers for the Department of Economic and Social Affairs, United Nations Secretariat.

A French philosopher observed, the left-wing bathe themselves in the warmth of Islamist extremism. They actively ignore the fact that extremists read Mein Kampf ... because they also read Lenin.

Incidentally, I am apolitical. I examine policies; I don’t vote based on political parties. This makes me a target for many hatreds.

I believe in individualism - this does not make me an elitist.

Danielle, you say you are not typically right-wing, yet the comments you make about left-wing academics, makes me wonder why you seem crazy enough to follow persons like Bush and Cheney, whom have not only lost their only non-American supporters like Tony Blair and John Howard but are now forced to rely on in Iraq, former Baath Party Sunnis turned insurgents whom they have put on the US payroll - and given the ridiculous term The Awakening, the Washington Post making a laughing stock of it all.

I hope you don’t mind, dear, but I am adding a commentary based on a question asked in the Guardian newspaper recently why American leaders have developed a ridiculous love of war, while Europeans are glad to have seen what they hope is the last of serious wars.

Something we don’t hope for, but a full-bodied occupation for a time might have made the Americans more humane.

In fact, most of the present Israeli Jews have experienced so much terror, it is a wonder they too seem so ready for war - which of course, only makes people like the Iranians more ready to attack them.

Maybe the possession of atomic weaponry as with both the US and Israel only makes national leaders more arrogant.

As the German philosopher Immanuel Kant proclaimed after becoming disappointed with Napoleon.

From this day on not one personage nor even one nation under God should ever be trusted to keep peace in this world.

Thus came the Kantian idea of Perpetual Peace represented by a chosen and elected federation of world nations of arranged equal power with multilateral leadership.

Certainly both the League of Nations and the later UN were based on the Kantian Formula, but the problem has never been solved of preventing the world’s strongest power taking over, as happened partly with Great Britain with the League’ and now America with the UN.

As Kant predicted so long ago, Danielle, one big power running the show, with just one in charge, can never be truly libertinian.

bushbred,

The UN, like the League of Nations is a farce - just look at the composition of the UN; then state that Israel's interests are fairly represented. Arab states are not only amongst the weathiest countries in the world, but also are among the most influential in the UN.
Look at the regimes of some UN countries. They must form queues outside the loos just to wash the blood off their hands befor a sitting. I'm sure Kant didn't envisage this type of community being one of "Perpetual Peace."

Israel has never threatened nor sabre-rattled whatever nuclear weapons it might have. However, nuclear capability is a deterence to attack. What was the left's view about Russia's nuclear capability and US' nuclear deterence. I believe this prevented WWIII.

WWII estimates of civilian deaths by conventional allied bombing are estimated between twenty to thirty- fold of the deaths from the two nuclear attacks on Hiroshima on Nagasiki.

Military experts state that the concept of nuclear weapons depend on application.

Access the site I gave you: FREE IRAN, Iranians do not want nuclear weapons. They openly state that President AhmadiNejad is insane - he spoke of his experience at the UN assembly when time stopped still, an aura surrounded him, and every face turned to him in "hope"; he also sends government communiques to some village, to be dropped down a well where some 1100 year old mahdi lives. AhmadiNejad believes that with the destruction of the present world, Allah will destroy all the nations except Islamic ones. Some very concerned Iranians fear that AhmadiNejad has annointed himself as the "prime mover" for this holy occurrence.

Iranians have requested the UN Committee and various international bodies that Iran be expelled from the UN until the Islamic Penal Code and other ethnic policies are removed.
But this has fallen, apparently, on deaf ears.

Incidentally, Iranian Intellectuals and dissidents wholeheartedly support Israel's right to exist.

I have just read a study on Palestine, which states that 80% of Palestinians would like the same system of democracy and government as Israel.

Palestinians travel from their territories to work in Israel because they then acquire the same welfare, medical and other benefits that Israelis enjoy.

Does the left actually know Israel's democratic policies, rulings - actual articles, how the Knesset runs, etc. Have they studied these in depth. Have they read the the findings of International Law on the Green Line, defence policies, etc ..

As I said, bushbred, I don't follow political lines, but think for myself. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the invasion of Iraq (Arabs are now presenting a solid case for
Saddam's WMD) it is pointless to return there. The situation is what should happen at present and in the future.

During WWII, complaints were made that the US didn't get involved early enough; now the reverse is made. ... You cite the “Guardian”. Incidentally, wasn't it the "Guardian" that stated that the late Princess Margaret had had someone's love child ...?

Read the quote I provided about Marx - and tell me this doesn't apply to left-wingers. I think it encapsulates them perfectly. If the left-wingers came out with a policy or program I thought sound, I would endorce it.

From my experience, however, left-wingers are ”elitist experts” - all "sound and fury signifying nothing ..."

Before trumpetting forth about the Middle East, they should have at least experienced stepping into camel excrement.

Incidentally, I don’t necessarily support all the right-wing policies either.

My opinion about politicians in general ....

I’ve had a cynical viewpoint about politicians since I was told by a minister that the KGB and the Vatican were collaborating together in bringing about the downfall of the USA by flooding their market with drugs. Even at 17 years I saw this as flawed ...

The saving grace is that politicians worldwide seem to have the same level of competency. A few have stood head and shoulders above others as to be true statesmen - but they are far and few between.