Brian -

Thanks for an easy to read article but you have let yourself be carried away. The aboriginies deal with officialdom - Medicare, Centrelink, Dept. of Education, Dept. of Health etc. in English. They watch TV delivered in English. Everthing written on packaged goods they buy is in English. Why in this country do we have aboriginal adults not having a clue what is being spoken to them in English?

in response to healthwatcher comments posted. why is that Aboriginal people not having a clue about what is being spoken to them is English? For many traditional Aboriginal people just like migrants English is a second language,they too have problems when they come into contact with mainstream society say for reasons where they might have to travel such as health. there remoteness isolates them from the rest of the mainstream community. There are many urban and rural Aboriginal people too how are unable to read and write and they are the product of an governmental system that has failed them. one might think well why dont they just go to school and learn, but in order to understand the problems Aboriginal people face today we must look into the past, where these problems were created.

There is no excuse for aborigines not being able to speak English.

As for teaching aboriginal languages - how ridiculous to force stone- age communications onto students trying to come to grips with an increasingly competitive and complex, global society.

Yeah, I've got to agree with Mr Right on this one. Which is going to be more valuable to an Australian kid in the future: something which is spoken by tens (or more) of millions of people (e.g. Japanese, French, Cantonese etc) in multiple countries, or something spoken by a couple of hundred people in mostly outback Australia?

And that's putting aside the normal liberal notion of being against "forcing" people to do things like this.

Like it or not, the world is shrinking and while we cannot be expected to learn all languages, learning ones which are more useful in the world that we live in surely makes more sense. As a suggestion this article makes absolutely no sense at all.

Brian - as a former language teacher (French) I like the sentiment of your article. I believe the learning of any language other than one's maternal language has benefits for the learner, particularly empathy with others.

My difficulty is that here "in the South" (I am in Noongar country in the SW of Western Australia), there are no regular speakers of Noongar. For many Noongar kids, their first language is not Noongar nor English. It is Kriol: there would be practical benefit in social workers, police, court-workers etc learning to speak the local Kriol.

Brian raises many complex issues: for one, even though general communication in Australia, the media, education above Grade III, the economy, society generally, is in English, will Aboriginal kids continue to be denied the right to learn and speak it, to learn in it through upper primary, secondary and tertiary levels ? And thereby, be able to find work and socialise in it on an equal footing with other Australians ?

And as anybody who has tried to learn an Aboriginal language will tell you, it has a vast range of terms relating to a hunting and gathering economy, and to a particular ritualised ceremonial life. I tried a few times to learn my wife's language, Ngarrindjeri, and found that on the one hand, there were many, many terms for trapping, and making spears, etc., but on the other hand, of course, no terms for most of the facets of modern life, including money, clothes, farm and urban production, grog, tobacco, etc. etc. The overlap of common words has of course been very useful, but it makes up only a few hundred words, and nowadays even the grammar is actually English (adding as 's' for plurals, for example, or 'ed' for past tense).

Most importantly, however, children must be taught in English throughout their schooling from pre-school onwards, and cultural and language work must be funded for after-school and Saturday mornings, taught perhaps by concerned parents. Indigenous children should no longer be denied access to a good education, and without textbooks in a hundred Aboriginal languages, the children are otherwise condemned to no useful education at all.

Joe

In my article I proposed there was another important point in improving communications with Aboriginal People and at the same time, making a move towards genuine reconciliation.
In communities where the local language has been lost and kriol has substituted,there is merit in it’s use. At Royal Darwin Hospital, they have an accredited kriol interpreter whose services are very much in demand.

One important point that I obviously did not make clear enough was that I was not intending that Aboriginal Languages be taught to Aboriginal kids…….
I was intending to include an Aboriginal language as an option for white kids……
Such an option is not going to be any more of a set back to a students progress than having to tackle Mandarin , Bahasa, Greek ,French or German. However, the white kids would derive great benefit in being capable of at least greeting an Aboriginal person in a familiar language . I am not even suggesting they need to reach a level of competence where they can utilize the whole vocabulary, recognizing each species by it’s own genus.

I had an experience just last week in the bank where a Traditional Aboriginal woman in front of me in a queue appeared to be getting irritated at the wait. The person in front of her seemed to be intimidated by her muttering and body language to the point where he dropped back in the queue. She turned and looked at me whereupon I greeted her saying “ Ga nhamirr nhe, manymak ?” (and how are you, good ?)
To which she replied “Yo, Manymak ngarra “ (yes, I’m good) and smiled.

We had a short friendly conversation using a combination of English and Yolngu mutta in which she told me who had passed away recently , who had been sent home from hospital and that another of my Clan family was at Snake Bay. until her turn came to go to a teller.

That represents a small practical gesture of Reconciliation. I would hope that Pat Dodson might consider pursuing the issue.

Brian,

I think it indeed would be a good idea to further Reconciliation .

Where there is no local working language possibly Aranda ,usefull around Uluru and Alice Springs would be handy, or a major language from the Kimberleys , Arnhem Land or north Queensland could be the language of choice .

My schoolboy French was handy overseas but useless trying to get to really know Aboriginal People in Alice Springs, Broome or Adelaide River .

Learning about the Culture of the language has to expand white consciousness .

It is important Aboriginal People learn English well, as the Court cases that you mention show .

They have been noted down through our short history as being capable of learning many languages when exposed to them .

An indigenous language should pose no real problems- finding the teachers may be a bit harder.

As I understand it indigenous languages have a rich and diverse vocabulary for the environment in which they are intended to be used. Outside that environment they struggle because the vocabulary required is different. Along with that are a range of concepts (e.g. linear time) not in common use in indigenous culture.
It is not simply a matter of expanding the vocabulary of the indigenous language or using a kriol. Those things can only take a language so far.
Which languages do you use? There are many indigenous languages and many others have been lost. Some which exist now have so few speakers that, realistically, they are not going to survive - especially with cultural taboos which limit contact between members of the group.
Do we put vast resources into trying to rescuse a language spoken by less than one hundred people?
Pitjanjara is taught at university level in South Australia but it is no longer an undiluted form of the language. That could not survive in the 21st Century. Language has to be able to describe the environment in which people live. Even those living in remote communities see and have access to objects that have no traditional vocabulary to describe them. Vocabulary must be created or borrowed.
In PNG Pidgin a helicopter was once "Mix-Master belong Jesus" among some locals. Now it is much more likely to be "helikopta".
So, if we teach indigenous languages, which ones do we teach and, more importantly, what will we really be teaching?

Communicat ,
One important point is that the law students that learnt Pitjantjatjarra would one would hope be streets ahead in understanding and making justice available for these speakers .

White justice should be administed justly and understood to be just .

It is not the role of schools to get involved in brainwashing bollocks like the meaningless "Reconciliation."

Of course learning about Aborigines is valuable. I strongly support World History and Comparative Religion being taught right the way through school. But if choices must be made ancient Greece, Rome, and China are far more important and relevant for Australian school children than those halcyon days of yam farming and gathering witchety grubs.

The "Indigenous" group at the 20/20 Summit was a scandal. Jackie Huggins is a good bird and was an appropriate Chair for that committee. But given the horrific and unacceptable prognosis of children living in many remote communities, what did these six-figure salaried jet-setting carpet baggers bang on about? "Self-determination" and treaties! Newsflash! Aborigines have as much “self-determination” as any other Australian. It is called running for parliament and voting in elections.

Contrary to this group being informed by "blackfella education" we had the usual misunderstood and plagiarised nonsense from mid twentieth century Parisienne intellectuals that dribbles from these academics! "genocide," "the Other," "UN human rights" blah, blah, blah. Hardly concepts from blackfella epistemology and metaphysics.

If uniquely aboriginal industry structures and companies can make enough money to sustain their “self determination” perhaps we should seriously address this possibility. Until then they should face up to the REAL issues..

There is no legal right to be heard in your first language - even the deaf do not have a legal right to an interpreter. Where there is a risk of a lengthy term of imprisonment there is usually some provision made but there is no requirement to do so. This has sometimes resulted in individuals with an indigenous background using the legal profession to claim they would not get a fair trial.
I doubt that getting law students to learn indigenous languages is going to solve the problem, indeed it is likely to exacerbate it.

What a wondeful suggestion - that aboriginal children be educated in their own language. The overwhelming majority of English speakers enjoy the privilege of an education in their own language, so why shouldn't the aboriginal children enjoy the opportunity of deepening and developing their own cultural heritage. I'd like to think we all could learn at least one other language, and hopefully a third or a fourth language just like many of my Chinese, Indonesian and European friends. Let's get rid of the colonial mentality of making everyone learn English to the detriment of one's own cultural heritage. The obvious answer is that, while being educated in our mother tongue, we could all learn Esperanto as the language of choice to ensure meaningful and dignified communication.

Communicat ,

I suspect you are better off in another Century ,in another country .

The pain and anguish that will come to you from Aboriginalas seeking "self determination " and respect for their Culture will be bothering you for a long time .

We understand no one HAS to provide a walking stick for the lame or help the dissadvantaged receive Justice - MOST decent Australians prefer to .

Careful Kartiya Jim - I was merely stating what the actual situation is in a court of law.
And I think that most right minded people, including indigenous people, would be disturbed if anyone (ab)used their racial or linguistic origins in order to get away with wrongdoing. Far better to provide a trained interpreter for someone who genuinely needs it than have a lawyer with a less than perfect understanding of a language struggling to understand and perhaps misunderstanding and failing to do their legal duty.
The vast majority of Australians claiming an indigenous background are of mixed race origins, are able to use English, are aware of the law as it affects them, and will almost certainly get legal aid. There are, on the other hand, many migrants who do not have sufficient English, are not always aware of how the law differs from that in their own country and do not get legal aid. Some of them will also abuse the system if they can, others are abused by it.
Of course there are a very small number of indigenous Australians who do not speak English and fail to understand the charges brought against them. (They are also, on the whole, a very law abiding group unless alcohol etc is involved.) Rarely do they lack interpreters or legal aid and I am not aware of any cases in which an indigenous person who has needed it has been denied an interpreter. On the other hand this can and does happen to speakers of other languages.
So demanding lawyers gain what would have to be, in most cases, an imperfect understanding of an indigenous languages just in case they might need it one day seems a little strange to me.
If you find that way of thinking offensive I apologise but I know any number of concerned Australians from an indigenous background who share my view.

Communicat,
In Central Australia Some interpreters are white. English is their mother tongue but some are able to communicate in up to four languages.

I am told they are very usefull especially in sensitive cases where communication of all the relevant detail is very important.

The WA Attorney General Jim McGinty has said there was a shortage of Court Aboriginal Language interpreters that needs to be addressed .

Very few white people would appear in court without someone beside them that can understand the court and legal language that may be used to attack or defend them .

. Joe,

I agree. As a speaker of one of the few Indig languages that have a speech community of more than 200 (considered near extinction by linguists) i would prefer funds were spent on recording my and other languages. From this we can then be ready for our languages to be revived somewhere in the near future.

The other point that the author of this article fails to understand is that languages, like the lands they are from, are considered part of the propriety interests on its speakers. They are intellectual property writ large.

Language survival is much more important now than trying to teach them in schools. And not every Aboriginal child will have natural rights to learning a language. This is sensitive stuff in Aboriginal communities.

Yes by all means strengthen interpreting services, yes by all means make language learning accessible to children whose language it is, but at the end of the day the real problem within cross cultural communication rests with speakers of English, or those areas of society unwilling to acknowledge or understand those who speak one or more languages - including styles of English

In Australia, English is the language of communication, of textbooks, of the media, of power. Not knowing English effectively enough to use it means that people are disempowered, unable to get an education above a certain low level, and therefore condemned to stay either unemployed (in a rapidly technologising economy) or to seek part-time and irregular work at the lowest levels.

Indigenous children are as likely as anyone else to move around and go interstate and overseas - and certainly have the right to do so - and even in the settlements where they may be growing up, they will need to be able to communicate with outsiders, including other Indigenous people, who most likely will not speak their language. So at the earliest opportunity, Indigenous children should have access to a fully English-language education, and right through to secondary and tertiary levels, like anybody else.

There is nothing colonial about this - in many colonies, e.g. the Congo, local people were banned from learning the colonial common language, French or Portuguese for example, and only the elite (sons of kings and chiefs) were taught in the common language, to prepare them for subaltern administrative roles. In today's Australia, all children need English to survive and prosper. To deprive Indigenous children of knowledge of English, and therefore of an education which uses textbooks, is a crime which will come back to haunt us.

Joe