Romany

Rather than fill available comment space I tender the following for you as well as contributors and those commenting with just a few search headings on Google to review the spread of reports, media treatment, and the plight of those defending rights in China.

Type the words inside the parenthesis into the Google search box and review the various responses for the protests -

"Heilongjiang farmer protests"
"Heilongjiang Touxing Project protests"
"Shanwei protests"
"Dongnangang protests"
"Dongzhou protests"
"Sanjiao protests"
"Baotou soldiers protest"

To check out just a few of the individuals in China trying to make a difference. Type the names in parenthesis into the search box

"Wang Yi blog" (not to be confused with CPCC member)
"Teng Biao" (rights lawyer)
"Gao Qinrong" (former state media journalist)
"Lu Banglie" (rights activist)
"Liu Xiaobo" (rights activist and writer)
"Zhao Xin academic human rights defender"
"Feng Qiusheng Taishi village"

You also may like to check out the work of Xiao Qiang, now director of the China Internet Project at the University of California at Berkeley.

Type in "Xiao Qiang China Internet Project University of California at Berkeley".

His work focuses on Beijing's directing financial, technical and human resources toward controlling the Internet, including hiring agents to post messages defending the party and undermining its critics both within and outside China.(sound famliar?)

China cannot expect to "big brother" others without being "big brothered" itself.

Anyone researching China cannot produce a credible opinion or result by relying solely on media or heresay from within China only.

If you need any further input, let me know.

Arthur Thomas
April 21, 2008

Arthur,

As you may have noted, I teach journalism so naturally am aware of some of the persons and incidents you posted links to. Have also discussed with students the Internet related work of Xiao Qiang, and the controversy concerning the closing down of Wang Yi's award-winning blog. As you can imagine, in the wake of the the Lhasa riots, these kinds of issues are hot topics right now.

Am glad you did post these links but remain stymied as to why you did not source either of your articles originally?

Romany

The search headings were not intended for you or your students and only backgound commentary for my own research.

They were intended to provide background and links for those who access On Line Opinion and are not familiar with the real situation in China and may wish to gain a broader perspective.

Since you acknowledge they are important enough to raise with your own students, is it not unreasonable and fair to share it with all interested parties to expand their knowledge as well and granting them the opportunity make an informed opinion of their own?

Arthur T
April 22, 2008

Arthur,

Well yes, as your last post was headed and directed specifically to Romany, I did indeed consider that it was meant for me.point

O.k., I hear what you are saying. But all the information you posted is a matter of public domain so that anyone who IS interested can easily access them. As I tried to illustrate in a non-confrontational way even despite the restrictions we have access to all this stuff too and engage in dialogue about it.

I'm afraid I disagree with your basic premise, however. Look, all the average person knows about China is that it has a history of human rights abuses, its restrictive, it pollutes. Ask anyone. Supplying sites that enforce this belief is not what I, as an educator or a journalist consider news, really.

But how many people know about the people, organisations, groups within (not exiles) China who are working to change things? How many people know about the small but real advances? How many people know about the changes that have taken places in people ideas in the last ten, five, two years - or even since Lhasa? How many people know what the embryonic leaders - the students, the young people as a whole - are thinking or doing? How many people know know what the people not the government is thinking?

I could sit down right now and provide a list of sites and personal anecdotes and experiences to prove that Australia also abuses human rights, that our pollution is horrendous, that our Government does not always gibe with the will of the people. Is that an objective and ubiased picture of Australia for those who have never been there?

Romany. It is all very well to look at the push for change in China by both young and old, but from my fairly extensive reading (which I won't quote here), there seems to be a considerable push by those who seek to retain power, to suppress any changes which even according to Chinese law, ought to be taking place.

There appears to be both a top down push as well as a grass roots push for change, but it is being frustrated by the people in power at the local level, who seem to have the co-operation of the police and military to keep the citizens in check.

David

Romany,
That you are a lecturer in journalism came as a surprise and especially for one with the extensive first hand knowledge of China that you claim.

Your request in responding to VK3AUU, "a) name his sources" (Arthur's), coming from a western journalist and especially one lecturing in journalism aroused my interest and two other associates in HK. Any journalist who has worked in China and is as familiar with China as you claim is always aware that his association with any Chinese citizen has the ability to create problems for those individuals. To ask anyone to provide names and details of individuals in China involving contentious matters such as the internet, human rights, freedom of religion, official corruption or criticism of official policy etc in open forum is to place those individuals in an untenable position and is unforgivable. I'm surprised you didn’t know this, or that you deliberately asked Arthur to do so. Ethics problem??

As a senior lecturer with extensive time in China, you must have had the opportunity to speak directly with many foreign journalists to seek alternative views and reason for the continuing log of complaints by foreign journalists working in China. Your professional position would have granted you opportunities as an investigative journalist to connect with the cells and networks to speak with journalists such as Gao Qinrong and many others. The only reason that such a connection would not be available is by association with individuals not trusted or without credible connections to the network or cells. And before you jump back onto your spooks diversion, cells and networks have universal applications, so no need for that juvenile "shh….. they're coming" comment.

By the way, what visa do you visit China on?

AgScientist