The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Socialism for the rich: the unwise free market > Comments

Socialism for the rich: the unwise free market : Comments

By Binoy Kampmark, published 31/3/2008

Bank bailouts: corporate success is the success of a few individual executives; but when the company fails, we must all fail with it.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. All
Thanks Binoy.

While the description may be true - "socialism" for the wealthy - what's your prescription? More or less of this?

Or is there another question? Why is this all going on? Maybe booms and slumps are natural to the way capitalism is organised. I say that not to defend the system but to point out its inherent weaknesses.
Arguably each slump since WWII is worse than the one that went before. And arguably bailing out major capital providers only smooths out booms and slumps for a little while and in fact may exacerbate the problem in the long term.

I say this not to argue for the so-called free market or state intervention but to say that a system based on the expropriation by the elite of surplus value from workers is inherently unstable. To me the solution appears to be to replace the profit system with one that sees production organised democratically to satisfy human need.

Otherwise we may end up seeing the common ruin of the competing classes.
Posted by Passy, Monday, 31 March 2008 8:14:15 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Passy....

you rightly identify the problems inherrent in Capitalism.. I totally agree.. (believe it or not) .. but I have a sneaking feeling your solution would be a Marxist one.. or something approaching that.

The problem with 'that' alternative of course, is that the same problem with "Capitalism" occurs within Socialism.. HUMAN NATURE.. greeeeeed.. self interest.. desire for glory, desire for power.. desire for a bigger share of whats available....

and I hardly think you can show me any example past or present where this has not been the fundamental flaw of any 'political' system.

NEW PEOPLE not NEW SYSTEMS make for good government.

1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.(Romans 12:1-3)

Now.. we often say in evangelical circles.. that the trouble with the 'living' sacrifice is it often tries to leap OFF the Altar....
in other words...the 'flesh' biblically speaking.. selfishness is at war with the Spirit.

Nevertheless, the Bible is not a hand book on good earthly government, it is a handbook on renewed hearts and minds. It stand to common sense and reason that if 'people' are Spirit filled and manifest the following...that good government and healthy societies will occur as a matter of course.

-love,
-joy,
-peace,
-patience,
-kindness,
-goodness,
-faithfulness,
-gentleness and
-self-control.

The reason these qualities are related to the Holy Spirit, is that you cannot 'legislate' love..or joy..or peace or self control etc...

They can only be achieved by the presense of the Spirit of Holiness in our hearts. Which means, we won't always be walking in those characteristics.. due to sin.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 1 April 2008 7:23:38 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Thanks for the timely article Binoy. I notice that yesterday the Australian financial commentators are asking how Opes prime, Allco, MFS, ABC Learning got into such a mess. Alan Kohler also questioning the stupid practice of superannuation funds lending their shares to hedge funds to sell short - they loaned the shares at the overnight cash rate and the hedge funds used the shares to sell short to drive the value of the shares down. Glenn Dyer questions Joshua gans plan to get superannuation funds to fund low cost housing saying that traditional lenders are getting put of the business because traditional sources of cheap credit have disappeared.
Posted by billie, Tuesday, 1 April 2008 8:24:02 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It is quite correct that we need to acknowedge the human factor in our economic arrangements. The unfettered free and unregulated market phenomena that has swept the world completely disregards this aspect. By comparison, rigid Socialist and Communist systems fare no better for the same reasons - each system seems to perpetuate a ruling class albeit of a different flavour and both as equally undemocratic.

The answer has to lie somewhere in the centre. If we accept for the present that capitalism provides the framework, there is a also a need to acknowedge the negatives in such a framework which can be offset by thoughtful regulation and a mix of publicly owned entities so that Collectivism and Capitalism work (for us, the people) toward desired social objectives?

The Third Way as described by Wikepedia as "The Third Way or radical centre, an economic and political idea that positions itself between democratic socialism and laissez-faire capitalism".

Rigid Left and Right ideology is not helpful when it fosters such prejudices that might prevent more pragmatic and lateral thinking solutions to the problems we face. Let's face it you don't hear much from the free market advocates against corporate welfare provided by the taxpayer. I confess my own bias is towards the 'soft' left of centre politics.

One example: What about schemes like profit sharing where workers are able to participate and share to an extent the successes of the efforts of their labour. This makes much more economic sense than any biased IR system that seeks to provide power and advantage to one group.

We can learn as much from the successes and failures of Venezuela or Cuba just as we can from the US or Europe.
Posted by pelican, Tuesday, 1 April 2008 9:04:29 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy