“Are Indigenous Australians so economically useless and menacingly unattractive that they need to be relocated away from their birth place or removed from public view?”

Best to stay away from the “unattractive” bit, I think, but “economically useless” part can be dealt with easily.

Apart from aboriginals who live and work in the wider community from choice, we don’t have the faintest idea whether or not the rest of them are useful economically or in any other way. Sitting around on the fringes of society, or in remote communities, getting money for doing nothing where there is nothing to do, they have never been tried or tested.

They have to be relocated away from the place of birth before we can find out. There is nothing for them to do in their places of birth. Opportunities cannot be taken to them; they have to move to the opportunities.

Stephan Hagan moved from Cunnamulla.

The two incidents most of the article is taken up with – which were dealt with about a month ago – have nothing to do with the question in Stephen’s opening paragraph

The author once again has out done himself in writing this nonsense, why do people keep giving this johnny come lately an open space to air his nonsence.

As for the comments of Mr.Wrong, the historical fact of the matter is that these people were placed in these gulags, so that their lands and resources could be stolen by farmers. As the farmers starved and killed these people for going on their stolen land, the missionaries placed them in these gulags to prevent them from being indiscriminatly murdered.

Their cheap labour built this country, from the construction of roads, clearing of land, cattle management and mining and building industry.

As for moving then on to the cities, the developers would love it as the land is worth billions in natural resources and potential housing. Unfortunatly, Indigenous people would not get a fair share of the deal as they do not have the same property rights as whites under white law. A fact Howard was aware of so he wanted leases on the land to remove the people of it to flood the cities, so his mates could make more money once again on the backs of blacks.

How usefull are the people, every heard of north force or the 51 NQR made up of mostly Indigenous people who protect our borders. Why you are sleeping they are out patrolling our borders and keeping the country safe. Thats not new people from those communities left them to fight the Germans twice and then the Japs, communists and others including four generations of my family.

How about asking why white lay abouts with opportunites for education and health in the cities are still on the dole when their are plenty of jobs. As a taxpayer I want to know why the gubberment doesn't apply the "intervention into Indigenous communities across the whole country to the white community. There are far more white bludgers than blacks just look at the casulty war on a saturday night or just look at the no hopers in the streets, its a bloody disgrace.

I have to agree with Mr Right on the fundamental need for some honesty on the future viability of far flung communities.

That said, Cunnamulla doesn't sound like a very friendly place.

I doubt you see many smiling black faces there, or much social interaction between blacks and whites.

If we stop for a minute and attempt to put ourselevs in the shoes of people who've basically been reminded (expressly or implicitly) since birth they are useless its hard to see how this does not become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

In a crude sense, economic self-sufficiency is the leg up people need to start recovering their self-respect.

I think that is more likely to occur when people live closer to the action.

I have no doubt Australia is chockers with people who hate based on race but rather than engage with them in tit for tat let's try to rise above it and focus on helping folks to improve their lives.

“ just look at the casulty war on a saturday night” (Yindin). Don’t touch those weekly fertility rights – they’re sacred ceremonies. Start interfering with them, and it will wreck the established environment. The booze, night-club, advertising industries and their affiliates will be devastated; hospital emergency wards will be decimated, most of the lights will go out at midnight, the moon and stars will become visible. The hoot of the owl and the hiss of disputing possums will be heard. The world will be changed. DON’T DO IT!

>Kevin Wise and the Alice Spring’s backpacker hotel proprietor, Greg Zammit, are the ones who ought to rethink their roles in their respective communities as I’m sure many Australians are of the opinion that they are the ones who should be moved on and kept out of public view.< I agree. But who would have them? Much of this country's wealth has been built on the stolen wages of Aboriginal people. Yet constantly I hear complaints of Aboriginal laziness, refusal to work, and so on. It is nonsense. Racism in Australia is alive and well, I am ashamed to say. But I thought racial villification was a crime? Obviously not, or those responsible in these instances would have been charged. Even if they did not end up in jail, hitting them in their hip pocket with substantial fines may cause a rethink.

I agree with much of what Yindin has said above. I fully agree with his historical analysis of the treatment of aborigines. However I think it is overstating the case to suggest that cheap aboriginal labour built this country. Certainly cheap aboriginanl labour played an important part of many industries. Clearly the equal wage decision ( however reasonable it was ) was a disaster for many communities.

Secondly I agree that aborigines have shown that they are, and there is no earthly reason why they wouldn’t be, just as capable as anyone else. It’s actually Norforce, ( also Pilbara Regiment and Far North Qld Regiment) I think and there is again little doubt of the important sacrifice of Australians of aboriginal heritage during all of Australia’s wars.

I agree that the quaranting of welfare should be extended to all people who aren’t fulfilling societal expectations of those who are receiving gov’t handouts. In fact Jenny Macklin has said that her gov’t is intending to do just that, I will however note than in many remote aboriginal communities, the sheer numbers of those not meeting expectation mandated that the intervention be across the board.

It is true that there are far more white bludgers than black bludgers, but it is equally true that remote aborigines are overrepresented in dole and emergency queues and in jail, when you look at it on a per capita basis.

I agree that aborigines not having the same property rights as whites is a significant problem. I disagree that aboriginal lands in general, particularly remote land, have much value in terms of residential use. Whilst ever there is no industry (ie work) out there land value in a residential sense will be very low. The present policy of collective ownership of land prevents aborigines accessing the same advantages as other Australians. Mal Brough was right to try and give aboriginal people the ability to own their own home. What point is there in adding to the value of your land if you don’t receive any benefit from doing so?

cont'

There is no longer any scope for sitting on the fence of modern and ancestral lifestyles. Aboriginal Australians must embrace modernity. It is a fact that in the modern world people need work in order to live meaningful and prosperous lives. Unfortunately for many aborigines who have been moved to remote mission stations, there is no work. Everything else (alcoholism, abuse, neglect, poor health and low life expectance) is a direct result of this fact. I don’t suggest that work will immediately fix all problems merely that the lack of such was a determining factor in the current outcomes.

Unfortunately I can’t see any way around having people move to locations where the possibility of work exists. Likewise, it seems to me that living in a remote community of 200 people you can’t expect to have a local heart surgeon or ENT specialist. I am not for a second suggesting that aboriginal people give up ownership of their land, merely that it is no longer possible to live in an isolated community and expect all the services and lifestyle advantages that city dwellers receive.

I don't deny that aboriginal people suffer from racism but they face far larger problems that are not as simply pigeonholed. For too long the left has hid behind its PC attitudes, refusing to do anything without correct form and therefore only extending the suffering of many remote communities.

Colinsett the wowser. Shifting attention away from alcoholism in remote communities by trying to equate the weekend revery of mostly employed and healthy people is obnoxious relativism and helps no-one. Are you one of those nimbys who move into a nightlife area for its lower than average property prices and then want to have those venues closed down because they annoy you? If you want to hear possums f#ck go somewhere you can, rather than reorganizing the world for your own benefit. Leave the rest of us alone.

>I think it is overstating the case to suggest that cheap aboriginal labour built this country.<
I am in the process of researching historical aspects of this country's British settlements and during this process have come across many unrecognised stories of how Aboriginals helped white settlement for no payment. For example, many isolated white women were befriended and helped by black women during both good and bad times, helping with food sources etc. There is good reason to suggest that without this help the white women and their children may not have survived. White men were often helped as well in immeasurable but unrecognised ways. I don't think it is overstating the case to say that without black help the country may not have achieved what it has. What I believe is that it so far is hugely unrecognised and it is overdue that this help be recognised. But the point of the article was extreme racism and how it is so blatantly being practiced with apparently too little being done to redress this. The actions of the perpetrators were reprehensible and even now, when we recognise racism for what it is, yet still it is being practiced, and too often condoned by those who should know better. The point here is that now it has been highlighted, what do we do about it? The Aboriginals are owed better than this and it shames me as a descendent of the early white settlers that we have not done more to allow these people to make better use of what we have to offer. Certainly it is a source of shame that their children are dying from preventable illnesses at a greater rate than white children, and life expectency is so hugely disparate. These happen because of racism, xenophobia, or whatever else one cares to call it.

Racism is objectionable whether as a means of deprivation, or as an accusation to inhibit debate.
The former was used to prevent Aboriginal children, of my own early primary school days, attending my local school. That, in John Howard’s lexicon, was Black Armband history. It was within our own lifetimes, but in the time since passed we are now long-distanced from legislated racism. Currently an impartial indifference exists across the continent as to people’s genetic mix – while there are small objectionable pockets, Australia as a nation is now far from being racist.
On the other hand, the racism flag continues to gag deeper debate on the fundamentals of many issues. It is also used to excuse the resurgence of cultural practices and restraints that societies have worked hard to have removed from the civilized world.
If communities, or pockets within them, are dysfunctional anywhere - from Redfern through Burke, Cunnamulla, Alice Springs, to Kalumburu or places in between, the basic causes rather than symptoms need to be addressed; without relevance to colour of skin or genetic origins. To do otherwise is divisive. This would not inhibit further resources being directed towards predominantly Aboriginal communities desperately in need.
Lifting a community out of dysfunction is seldom straight forward. Descent into despair is counterproductive, but hard to avoid, and escape from reality is part and parcel of it.
A break from the mundane with a bit of whoopee is harmless enough. But not when it becomes a continuous opiate for escaping reality of the world we live in. An odd corroboree, song and dance perhaps followed by a stoush, whether in central Australia or at the old Barn Dance, has been superseded. The industries of competitive consumerism have led us towards continuous estrangement from direct connection with reality. Overindulgence in Ice at Kings Cross, petrol sniffing in remote communities, permanently sloshed to the eyeballs here and there – the cause, or the result of social dysfunction? Quick, facile answers are not helpful, and please don’t complicate the issue by overplaying the ugly racism card

"Second, what merit does a subjective view give to the question of the aesthetic beauty of one person over another?"
Excuse me but those subjective judgements are being made all of the time. And what is wrong with it? From personally experience i know that aborigines are often loud, crass, like swearing and abusing each other, and seem to enjoy the subsequent intimidatory effect. If people behave badly and get ejected that is common sense and a duty to the other guests, if the people identify as aborigines then it is racism. One question, why didn't the people in Cunnamulla take the $50,000 and leave town? Sounds like a good deal to me.

Stephen Hagan and Aboriginals need to stop blaming the world for their ills. Australia has had wave after wave of immigrants since the 1940s. Each wave arrived with nothing, often encountered resentment and outright racism, but worked hard to build their future. The Vietnamese are a classic example. Fraser changed the white Australia policy to let Asians into Australia. These people encountered a lot of resistance and racism. They had absolutely nothing. But with a culture that values education and hard work above all else, I've now often gone to Vietnamese doctors. They didn't receive the same handouts as Aboriginals, they didn't receive preferential treatment and they didn't blame everyone else for their failures. They are now an integral part of the wider Australian community.

As for moving to find jobs or housing - get over it. I just moved a hundred kilometres to buy a unit because I couldn't afford the $500,000 price tag of units where I grew up (probably never will be able to). I'm just one of thousands of Australians who have been forced to move from friends or face a lifetime of renting.

It's time Aboriginal leaders stopped whining about racism and actually did something for themselves. There are many prominent Aboriginals who are well respected by the wider community. They are respected because they earned respect by their actions. That is how our society works: merit. You may think because you have black skin you're entitled to be respected no matter how badly you act, but in that case you'll be crying racism and waiting a long time.

More than twenty thousand Indigenous people have graduated from university across Australia (and another nine thousand are currently enrolled) so they have more than amply demonstrated their right to live and work anywhere they damn-well like in what was their country entirely for sixty thousand years. For most of the past two hundred years, they helped to build this country, the best shearers, the best cattleworkers. They can succeed in whatever they put their minds to. Get used to it.

Joe

"Australia was built on the wages stolen from Aboriginals" Wow!
Australia was built on the backs of the pioneers, the Aboriginal workers and migrants seeking a better way to live,who were prepared to slog hard for the privilege. Quite unlike many of today's migrants.
The sad fact that much of the crime is committed by young aboriginals is ignored, bashing,house breaking, raping- ignored. the terrible crimes committed against their own children and women -ignored.
But that doesn't stop this self pitying master of victimhood-as usual.

A shameful situation against the indigenous Aussies involved. A little reminiscent of familiies being forced away, when AIDS first hit the scene. That said, I don't think it fair to say Anglo-Austalians are typically racist.

The aforementioned need not be the case. Herein, I note that many Italian, Greek and Asian Australians seem happily settled in the Leichhardt, Five Dock, Stanmore, Ashfield to Strathfield belt of Sydney suburbs. Most are gainfully employed and many live in million dollar homes.

Likewise, it would unfair to taint all aboriginal Australians for burning out a white family near Redfern's "The Block" [reported on TV some years' back]. Black or White, the trouble makers are a minority, to be treated as un-Australian by te rest us, full-stop.

Regards,

O.