"Christianity lacks a martial tradition in the New Testament, just as it lacks a New Testament doctrine of warfare against unbelievers."

Of course. But Judaism has a martial tradition. The Old Testament God calls upon the Israelites to slaughter women and children and destroy all living things of the enemy.

So yes, with Islam and Judaism, it's different. When people like online_east have finished murdering the Moslems, their next target will be the Jews. Then the world can witness the true absence of a non-martial tradition.

Boaz_David's evangelical Christian God will send his son for a second coming. Jews and Moslems and Hindus and Buddhists and Parsees and Shintos etc etc .will burn while Boaz and his mates are protected and saved by their divine rapture.

Godly genocide. Praise the Lord!

BOZO... please refer to the middle paragaph of ONLINE-EAST's post ..the quote from Robert Spencer.

TRTL.. you don't 'ban' something because it is 'irrelevant'..you ban it because it is destructive or seditious.

Please also refer to the paragraph I drew BOZO's attention to. It's key.

If a person is convicted of murder, and they are executed by the State, it is hardly logical to then claim the 'State' is out to 'get' everyone else. This simple analogy explains the judgement on the various 'ites' in the Old Testament.

BOZO..back to you. The new Testament absolutely does NOT have a 'doctrine of "Christian" warfare against unbelievers'.
BUT..it does have a recognition that the Emperor has a sword and on occasion needs to use it against 'evildoers'.. Romans 13:1-5

The principle of War is not part of the 'Church' although Christians may have to serve in the Military at times when the Emperor legitimately calls for it.

"Murdering the Muslims" ? I didn't find a shred of suggestion in OnlineEasts post about that...did you? really?

Christians claim that their religion is completely secular. Yet as Boaz has shown, Christians can and will fight aggressive war on behalf of a secular government.

This is becoming so tedious. I am so sick of hearing about the dogmas of Muslims, and the "revelations" of their 7th century charlatan "Prophet". Why, in the name of common sense, are we allowing these "fifth column" zealots into our western societies and giving them citizenship . . . even though many of their leaders and clerics preach Jihad and treason against us from inside the Mosques they have built in the very democratic countries which have given them refuge? Does that suicidal policy make any sense? These people think in the LONG-TERM. We natives of complacent democracies do not.
They do not care if it takes 200 years to achieve their agenda for Islamic rule. How many times does it need to be said? "Orthodox" Islam is not just a religion. It is also a specific political ideology that does not recognize any legitimate separation between the power of the institutions of religion and the power of the institutions of government. None of the historical crimes that have been committed in the name of "Christianity" can be justified by anything Jesus HIMSELF is reported -- in the Biblical scriptures -- to have said. Can the same really be said of the contents of the Quran, and the statements of Muhammed . . . as reported from Islamic sources . . . in relation to the historical crimes committed in the name of Islam?
I have a degree in Mediterranean history, and am probably one of the few non-Muslims who have actually read the Quran in its entirety, more than once . . . something I know even many Muslims have never done. The Bible does not specify what kind of government people on Earth are supposed to create for themselves. The Quran most certainly does. There are Muslims who consider themselves "moderate", but the Quran itself is not moderate or sympathetic toward secular democratic government by any stretch of the imagination. And, it is manifestly NOT the moderate Muslims who are setting the agenda for world-wide Islamic expansion.

Sonofeire - I could not have put it better. I've long said that to avoid being anti-social in the extreme, a Muslim needs to ignore quite a bit of the Koran. I've started reading it myself, and am pretty shocked. And as for long memories, none have longer memories than radical Muslims.
The Christian New Testament does not have the same violent material as the Koran. (Except for the fanasies of power, the Apocalypses found in the gospels and the Revelation of St John.) The violent material in the Jewish scriptures is out of date, as it was aimed against a specific set of people. all of whom have long since disappeared. (In fact, the jews failed to carry out this violence, as they were frequently criticised for failing to kill all the people who lived in the lands they occupied.)
An idea has come to me. What about producing a copy of the Koran which has the extreme anti-social material removed (the violence, the mysogeny and the rantings against Jews)? The Humane Koran, although it will probably get known as the holey Koran (Koran with holes). And just to make it easy, we could put all the material we are leaving out in an appendix, with explanation as to why it has been removed (referrences to Islamic sources).
Right now, the world is seeing something new. Muslims are moving to non-Islamic countries out of preferrence to living in Islamic countries. Because many of the receiving countries have adopted some form of 'multiculturalism' these Muslims are being encouraged to keep their culture, which for them means their religion, and the host country makes no criticism of that religion - it even encourages it. Islam being a political program, it is very hard, to impossible, for those Muslims who do not want to live under the Sharia to successfully resist their co-religionists who do wish them, and everyone else, to live under it. I say, we need to break Islam, and my project is one way to start.
Anyone interested in joining me?

"The Bible does not specify what kind of government people on Earth are supposed to create for themselves. The Quran most certainly does."

You should talk to the people at Salt Shakers, Danny Nalliah's mates. They say that the New Testament provides clear guidance of government structure and policy. But where in the Koran does it say exactly what sort of government Muslims should have? If this is the case, why do you see so many different kinds of governments in Muslim countries?

"And, it is manifestly NOT the moderate Muslims who are setting the agenda for world-wide Islamic expansion."

Which agenda? The one of evangelical Christians in the US who have taken over the Republican Party? The agenda of Franklin Graham who urged Bush to invade Iraq as it would weaken the Muslim world? Or is it the agenda of Opus Dei who want to push the Vatican toward supporting another crusade?