Turnrightthenleft,
I think calling someone "childish", "bizare","stupid"."lazy" and "misoginst" is a form of verbal abuse.

As a feminist, do you liker verbal abuse?

I've never heard of a VFL player being charged and convicted with with rape, so as a rough estimate, how many VFL players rape women?

TLTR, since you stick to strictly reported statistics when coming to your conclusion on DV, then are we to assume that represents the whole and it or rape are never unreported or any false claims added to the statistics?

I have been involved in law enforcement and I can assure you that it is not mostly men committing DV. The problem is that the entire system is setup to help women and even many western countries define DV in such a way to try and prevent women from being arrested for it. I gave up since I got tired of being yelled at by the prosecutors when I would arrest a woman who was obviously the perpetrator instead of the man or at least both.

As to the actual topic, try getting a woman prosecuted in most any western nation for rape even when it involves drugs and a minor. Usually she will get tons of sympathy, mental health help with the excuse she has emotional problems and maybe a few months in jail. A man on the other hand can be drunk, have a woman take advantage of him and later she can flat lie about her and his consensual sex putting him through a living hell. The few studies I have found on this were done in the USA and they found 25$ on average were flat lies of rape reported to the police. Excuses such as to cover an affair, protect their reputation or revenge for his dumping her were the most common reasons. It is a legal form of rape against that male because no matter what it is on his record for the public to see, he will face death threats, the police will ignore his rights to try and nail him and much more. Try being on the receiving end on a false accusation and you will find out it id VERY comparable to a woman being raped.

Here are links to stats for you.

http://www.cmrlink.org/social.asp?DocID=276
http://www.sexcriminals.com/library/doc-1002-1.pdf
And here are a few HUNDRED studies showing women commit DV more than men.
http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

HRS, I notice you keep asking TRTL for statistics, when you ignored my call for statistics earlier. I'll restate it. You have said that in 30-50% of marriages the wife "will have one or more children and seek a divorce. Then [she] will get most of the assets and allow [the ex-husband] to see the children every second weekend, as long as [he] pays [her] money. [She] will also call [him] a deadbeat dad and an absent father."

Do you have statistics to back this up? It just seems unlikely, given the entire divorce rate in Australia is only around 30%, and women instigate only around 40% of those divorces. (Men instigate around 30%, around 30% are joint instigations.)

Even if you've got that bit wrong, perhaps you could give us your evidence for claiming that, in divorce, women get "most of the assets".

See the Australian Bureau of Statistics
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/ProductsbyCatalogue/F356DBB7EA7A96EECA256F10007B6B1A?OpenDocument

TurnRightThenLeft. "I was willing to listen to HRS until he point blank refused to accept that unfortunately, men do, on average, commit more domestic violence than women"

This is somewhat off topic but are you aware of serious research which verifies that "men do, on average, commit more domestic violence than women"?

- Research which ensures that findings are not a difference in gender approach to reporting DV?
- Research which does not use as a baseline assumptions about the genders, power in relationships, gender honesty etc?
- Research which really asks the questions rather than starting with the assumption that men are responsible for most DV and then doing logical gymnastics to prove it?

The serious reseach which I've seen which attempts to find the answer to the question shows that women actually physically assault partners slightly more often than men. That has been the case for many years and across much of the "western" world. At the extreme end of the scale women do more often suffer serious injury as a result of physical DV than men (one of the documents I've referenced suggests 6 to 7 times more likely, other material I've seen suggests 2 to 3 times more often ).

Three documents which I consider independant
http://www.fact.on.ca/Info/dom/heady99.htm
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/170018.pdf
http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/abstract/97/5/941 (just an abstract but relevant)

Material which with an advocacy feel to it but which is useful
http://www.mincava.umn.edu/documents/factoid/factoid.html
http://www.safe4all.org/essays/2page.html
http://www.ncfmla.org/gelles.html
http://www.mediaradar.org/research.php#waj

R0bert

On the radio this morning was a statement that America was still, after all this time, predominantly sexist, more sexist than racist. I disagree: one only has to read the pap here to realise that Australia probably would vie for the title of 'most sexist society' . The article points out that women are still largely being victimised by men, in many forms, and the posts certainly have provided the proof. Oh, we get the 'poor little bloke me, me missus did me wrong' nonsense as somehow providing proof that the majority of men are being bashed and victimised and their voices are being ignored. With the occasional policeman to support it. The article deals with over-testosteroned blokes who need lessons, delivered in almost kindergarten fashion, to get them, obviously underendowed with brain-power, to realise that they shouldn't treat women in the ways they obviously do, or hold them in the low regard they obviously do. Is it uncommon? I mean, do footballers have the monopoly on sexist behaviour? No. Okay. Not every woman is an angel. But the stats clearly show it is men who perpetrate the most violence on women, and no matter how one sludges the figures, that has not changed from the time that stats started being kept. Most of the sexual predatory crimes are perpetrated by men. Most of the crimes relating to the rape of chilren are perpetrated by men. Most of the domestic violence is perpertrated by men. The majority of murders are of women, and most murders have been perpetrated by men. Let's be clear about this, fellas. Until you take the situation in hand yourselves, and start behaving the way decent folk do, stop the whingeing. The author makes some of the most cogent arguments I have heard for some time and YOU ARE JUST NOT LISTENING. Now, listen up: wake up to yourselves. Start behaving like real men, like decent men. Take lessons. Go to courses on behaviour modification if necessary. But understand that the days of knock-down, drag-em-by-the hair-to-the caves is over. The lady makes sense and is right.

Hear hear arctic dog.

gwallan

Of course a man’s consent is important - why wouldn't it be? If the man you speak of cannot remember the incident then clearly he did not give consent. The laws governing rape do not distinguish between a male victim or a female one. Did the person you speak about ever report the crime to the police? There are male advocacy groups and rape crisis centres provide the same support and counselling for all victims of rape regardless of age or gender.

The link below is from the UK but outlines some of the myths about male rape which sometimes diminish the impact of rape on men, the second link is from an American Rights Watch group about the rape of men in prisons.

http://www.aest.org.uk/survivors/male/myths_about_male_rape.htm

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison.htm

Skipgrrl (on behalf of Tigerman)

I do understand what you are trying to argue regarding the drunk woman behind the wheel of a car and a drunk woman being raped but I don’t think it is at all fair to compare the two incidents in terms of responsibility.

Everyone knows that when you drive intoxicated you are risking not only your own safety but those of others. This is what makes the drunk driver (male or female) culpable ie. for obvious reasons it is against the law to drink and drive. It is not against the law to drink and party no matter how stupid or risk taking in some circumstances.

Should a drunk woman or man at a party be raped she/he is no less a victim because of their drunken state and being drunk does not legitimise rape.

Your argument implies (unintentionally I am sure) that unless a woman is sober a rape charge is not warranted.

For heaven's sake rape is rape.