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The Forum > Article Comments > Education: it's child's play > Comments

Education: it's child's play : Comments

By Kevin McDonald, John Turner and Peter Williams, published 21/2/2008

Thinking clearly is critical to the well being of individuals and the future of society: it should be taught in schools.

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Romany makes a good point. There are problems with words such as philosophy and the adverse mind sets of those interpreting the words used. Oh that the Alice in Wonderland theorem applied.
The problem is that Philosophy for Children is becoming well known around the world and is often abbreviated to P4C. One person I know stated that the concept is now being used in about thirty countries involving sixteen languages. It seems to me that Australia is being left behind. Possibly that is why the trio of authors are pushing their barrow.
I read and kept a copy of the Law article published first in the Sydney Morning Herald. Law's book makes too much of anti-dogma reasons for promoting P4C. It is the future advantages to children and society that are the substantial advantages.
I have seen a classroom practice guide of nearly 60 foolscap pages prepared in NSW in 2003. That is over four years ago! I don't know how many hours of work went into the document but too many! Most of those hours would have been better spent just doing what was necessary.
I spent a few years as a volunteer high school tutor until the later part of 2005 and I saw nothing occurring that matched the practice guide. Somehow inertia in government and the public service has to be overcome.
Posted by Foyle, Friday, 22 February 2008 8:17:22 AM
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Twenty years ago I persuaded the primary school in which I taught to let me teach the program discussed by the authors. Another teacher agreed to collaborate with me so that the program was delivered to an entire year-level. At that stage P4C (Philosophy for Children) was virtually unknown in Australia and used materials developed in USA, and so it presented our kids with a few terms and cultural references that were a little hard to fit into our context.

Nevertheless -- and much to the surprise of some staff -- the program really engaged the children's minds. I recommended that the school adopt it. As it happened, in a shuffle of teaching roles I moved into a different specialty area. The philosophy program no longer had an advocate and was dropped.

I believe the P4C program has now been revised to fit the Australian context. On the basis of my own experience I am ready to believe it could do all that the authors of this article suggest if adequately resourced.
Posted by crabsy, Friday, 22 February 2008 4:10:49 PM
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'ability to think clearly is critical to the well being of individuals and the future of our society'...agree...but the article doesnt really explain the essentials to this...like the crucial time to learn this is usually from 6 years old to about 9...ie during the 'why, why, why' phase schools and most parents know annoyingly well about...

it also called teaching the child to apply 'their reasoning mind' and unfortunately the commonest cause of failure to sufficiently develop this skill and suffer into adulthood is...yes...those said factor...

usually school for regimented 'quiet and listen' routine, to mothers 'do as I say', and fathers 'its because it like this' explain away routine...none of these assists the child...

best as an example of 'how to teach' for fathers...child asks 'dad whats that' pointing to your new laptop...first resist the usual first response to 'explain' ie its a computer for dad to do work etc...instead bring yourself to your childs little world then ask a leading question which gives you information about their level of thinking...usual is to reverse the question ie 'what do you think it is'...initially usual answer is 'I dont know'...then lead with questions eg what does it look like, what does dad do on the home computer etc...and if they struggle then answer that aspect as something they might have said...and before you know it you are guiding them to the answer by having a meaningful conversation with them...and it keeps getting better as they develop the parts of the brain used in 'the reasoning mind'...then there is less of 'I dont know' and more of their actual personality, intelligence and current knowledge...and before you know it you can even help them reason a solution to bullies, friends, hurt feelings etc

Word of warning...it doesnt take long for them to become challenging...meaning you have to put effort into it as well...yeah doing your own home work first before opening your mouth...but results in really memorable conversations...try it sometime...

Sam
Ps~watch out for mother trying to disrupt it...they can get insecure with a improving fatherchild relationship...
Posted by Sam said, Friday, 22 February 2008 8:09:44 PM
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A subject, as a parent, close to my heart.

I don't know if it correct to distinguish between Teaching and Education, English is my second language, but I look at a school to do both. Teach the three R's AND educate how to use these tools, manipulate them and become aware that others do the same.

Deconstruction for deconstruction sake without at least basic knowledge of the big world of philosophy is withholding the big picture from a person.

It is a shame that words as philosophy and critical thinking have become such loaded words. Philosophy covers the entire spectrum of ethical and moral thinking. How we use tools learned through teaching is after all based on our own personal philosophy and that of the society we live in.

My eldest son completed his High School 2 years ago doing the International Baccalaureate ( www.ibo.org ). Not only is it academically rigorous (eg.the English component was more challenging than the local requirement!), it also challenges students in areas of thinking, community service and personal development.

It opened up the world to him and increased his intellectual and personal confidence monumentally. It is all very well to critize, protest and rail against 'authority' or be in favour of the status quo, but if it is done without the ability to critically think about your reasons and the other's argument than it just becomes mindlessly following somebody else's opinions.

I'm very determined that my daughter also gets an Education and finishes her school doing the IB. Unfortunately, very few state schools offer this.

If State Schools were to adopt the IB, watch the exodus from the Private Schools back to State Schools.

At the end of the day, parents want to send their children off into life with the best set of tools AND the skills to use them. That is what we look at schools to provide.
Posted by yvonne, Saturday, 23 February 2008 11:39:29 AM
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