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The Forum > Article Comments > Zimbabwe against the world > Comments

Zimbabwe against the world : Comments

By Andrew Elder, published 10/1/2008

Troublesome Africa - it woulda/coulda/shoulda been cheap 'n' easy to wipe out Mugabe.

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Wiz “then what is it about Africans that you believe makes them incapable of running their own countries”

The history of Africa in the period since European colonization and the observation that whilst much of the rest of the world, ex European colonies included, have “advanced” materially, democratically and in terms of life expectation, Africa has recessed.

As to “the solution would surely be for them to explorer alternative forms of civilisation, perhaps more tribally/collectively-based.”

Far from being some form of “solution” the truth is the “tribalism” you suggest is what they has caused the regression.

The attrition seen in the central African republics (example Rwanda) is “tribal”.

Mugabe was elected to power when the Mashona voted along “tribal” lines for him.

As for “Either way, Africans single-handedly kept our species alive for over 100,000 years.”

So how many years ago did that 100,000 years occur?

I doubt the world population was anywhere near what it is now.

Same earth, fewer folk, less competitive demand for food, easier for the hunter gatherer.

Much social development has been in response to population growth, that might explain why aborigines had developed so little by the time Britain colonized Australia.

I would suggest regardless when what might have happened, the issues of today have to be faced by the people of today.

Just like the bleating of Australian aborigines, what might have been or happened 40,000 years ago in Australia or for a period of 100,000 years in Africa counts less than what happened yesterday and a hell of a lot less than what might happen tomorrow.

My observation, living in in southern USA, visiting Zimbabwe-Rhodesia in 1980 (as it was at the time), a week after Mugabe came to power -

“African Negros” are entirely different people to “North American Negros”.

It is simple, the social values and environment in which many generations have developed on the two continents, separated by an ocean, have “nurtured” them into different “races”.

Much the same as “Australians” will have evolved from Britains (in comparative terms in another 100 years or so).
Posted by Col Rouge, Thursday, 10 January 2008 6:20:27 PM
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"Aborgines had developed so little by the time Britain Colonised Australia".

Col Rouge you overlap Leigh in arrogant comment.You as we all are, are immigrants. I had no choice I was born here, but to have an immigrant Ten pound POM, deride the true Australian people. Shows you have no respect for Australia, you came here to make a quick buck, as you appear to have failed from where you came from.
Posted by Kipp, Thursday, 10 January 2008 6:55:43 PM
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Has “tribalism” caused the regression? Certainly most African political parties have a strong 'tribal' loyaty base with one tribe usually in the dominant position. That situation, is predictable given ethnic/language groups tend to live in geographically defined communities.

Whilst political loyalty to a candidate's tribal origins may not be conducive for stable democratic transition of power, is not necessarily a recipe for bloodshed after an election. Look at recent democratic elections in Ghana and Liberia. Few casulties with a relatively smooth change of government.

The problem of post-election violence has more to do with the ruthless pursuit of power by unprincipled incumbents like Mugabe and/or their opponents who have never had any intention of respecting the will of the people as expressed in votes cast at the ballot box.

Russia and former soviet republics also suffer potitical leaders with this mental mindset. Remember, many African countries, like Ghana, were soviet client states in the cold war.

Tribalism exists in some form in all societies, Australia no exception. Ethnic communities do tend to swing their support as a block.

As African democratic political systems mature, the countries' public, opinion leaders and players engage in activities to minimise the risk of post-election violence. This usually involves careful pre-poll preparation, good transparent processes for the conduct of the election and a pivotal role for foreign and local election monitors. I have observed recent elections in Ghana.

Some of Ghana's poll security measures include current electoral rolls, issue of tamperproof voters' ID cards and the application of an indelable fingernail dye on people who have voted. More rigorous and effective at preventing multiple voting than Australia's weak anti-fraud methods.
Posted by Quick response, Friday, 11 January 2008 8:24:11 AM
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There leigh goes again espousing her racist views about anyone not white like her and as usuall she knows nothing about the subject.

I was one of only a handfull of multi national UN peace keepers in the country at the time responsible for disarming the various factions at our check point before allowing them to proceed on to vote.

Africa in particular southern Africa is made up of hundreds of different tribes connected by language religion and other factors we didn't quite understand. The only language the people understand in Africa is dictatorship, white or black anyone with the most gun's is in charge.

Smith was a rutherless mongrel who used any means to keep control including torturing children a young as ten and his replacement has proved to be no different.

Many of my mates who are intitiled to wear the blue cap ( UN ) like myself have told me the Balkans was not much different and those people are white.
Posted by Yindin, Friday, 11 January 2008 8:41:32 AM
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Kipp “Col Rouge you overlap Leigh in arrogant comment.”

That you find it “arrogant” is your problem. I suggest “go tell to someone else, who might actually care”

“I had no choice I was born here,”

your citizenship is an “accident”.

“immigrant Ten pound POM, deride the true Australian people.”

I arrived in 1983, the “Ten Pound POME” program ended a decade past.

When I arrived through Sydney, the migration officer read my visa and said,

“Ah some of the chosen people”

Contrary to how you identify yourself (viz “I had no choice”)

I paid my fare

I am here because I had to scale the obstacles of Australia’s migration policy, which were not easy, clearing health, employment, suitability criteria as well as the air ticket price.

I wonder if you would have been “accepted” if faced with the same hurdles as I?

“True Australian people”

what a bunch of elitist rubbish

Everyone who has citizenship of Australia is potentially a “True Australian”. Some scumbags do not deserve it, regardless where they were born.

You do not need to trace your ancestors back 200 years to the first fleet or back 40,000 years to be a “True Australian”

Someone who might have been born in a different land, who is a citizen and supports the values of Australia is a “True Australian”.

You personal insecurities might tell you different but believe me, your elitism is entirely understandable, when read in conjunction with the rest of your small minded babble.

“Shows you have no respect for Australia”

I respect individuals, not “social categories”.

If I had “no respect” I would (and could) go elsewhere, where you would not be “accepted”.

“you came here to make a quick buck”

I brought my family here, not the actions of someone wanting to “make a quick buck”

“as you appear to have failed from where you came from.”

Not at all, I gave up a fabulous job / career at a time when I was being offered promotion. Hardly the profile of having “failed from where I came from”
Posted by Col Rouge, Friday, 11 January 2008 9:14:05 AM
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Wizofaus,

Col has answered your questions very well. Tribal emnity is one of the major problems.

Genetics has nothing to do with the situation. Any person in the right setting, with the right education and standards of behaviour can prosper. These are not available in Africa.

If you wish to know any more, you will have to send me large cheque for my time. I am hear to express my humble opinions, not to teach.

Yindin,

On what basis do you make the amazing claim that I "know nothing about the subject"? Have we met? Would you like to post everything you know about me and my credentials?

I think the claims you make for yourself are probably rubbish, but I don't know enough to say, for sure, that they are.

I'll tell you one thing, though. Anyone who refers to a man as "she" and "her" is not the sharpest knife in the draw. What sort of name is 'Yindin'. I don't known, so I suppose it's OK if I refer to you as 'it'?

Kipp,

What a nasty little piece of work you are!
Posted by Leigh, Friday, 11 January 2008 9:56:02 AM
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