The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Indigenous culture can live on > Comments

Indigenous culture can live on : Comments

By John Mathews, published 7/1/2008

Many Indigenous Australians are caught between two worlds, and lack the knowledge and skills to succeed in either.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All
Fine, thoughtful & intelligent article, great way to start debate on Indigenous issues for the New Year. Good to see OLO circulating articles that have substance and strategic value!
Posted by Dan Fitzpatrick, Monday, 7 January 2008 9:41:28 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Overall a well written and researched article, with my only critism being that the use of so called cross cultural communication in the work place.

It has been my experience as an employer to say that I totally disagree with cross cultural communication in the workforce, because I believe that it creates barriers between staff rather than its intended use to bring workers together.

So I have taken the view that all employees including myself and my management team will all attend staff related team building programs. These programs will hopefully create closer ties between workers for the benefit of our custommers, and has so far been very sucessfull.

As an employer I believe that it would have been irresponsible to introduce cross cultural Awarness training in the workforce based on one culture, unless it properly addresses the cultures of my other staff.

As an Indigenous person I believe that this cross cultural nonsence is a load of rubbish, created by southern blacks to give themselves jobs and has no place in the modern Australian workforce.
Posted by Yindin, Monday, 7 January 2008 10:09:19 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
This article goes straight to the heart of the problem - the need for education and employment.
The powers that be in the bureaucracies of education at the State/Territory level must acknowldege that they have failed in the past and support different ways of achieving the objectives of sound literacy and numeracy levels that will only come when children are attending school.
As the writer points out the Aboriginal child is "without the basic knowledge and values that many non-Aboriginal children will have learned from their parents even before attending school."
There is too much which we persons of the dominant culture take for granted as our children start on the learning process from the day they are born towards that first day at school.
The Aboriginal child, especially the one from a remote community, has to be made "school ready" and understand the reasons why an education is important. We have to bridge that gap between the Aboriginal cultural upbringing in the home with the white mans way so they can sit alongside their peers and be proud of where they have come from rather than slinking in a corner fearing they are inferior.
Let some new ways be tried and them show the way to a better method than has been tried in the past and stop tinkering at the edges of a failed education system.
I support everything the writer says.
Rollo Manning
Posted by Rollo, Monday, 7 January 2008 10:32:58 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
YINDIN... you have no idea how my heart warmed to what you wrote in your last post.

The point about implementing cross cultural communication is exactly as you said.. "creates barriers" and emphasizes 'Us/Them' as I've always said.

ONE CULTURE does not have to mean the dissappearance of all other sub cultures, but it DOES mean their willing participation in the predominant culture as recognized by all (or should be).

I absolutely believe that the focus of government should be on promoting the UNITY aspect of an Australian way of life, and not pandering to minorities who eventually end up acting like the Sikhs, and wanting to get exceptions from laws about deadly weapons so they can fulfil their supposed religious obligations.

I'm having a running convo about that with a sikh girl at the servo where I get petrol. My cultural blood BOILS at the thought of one group of kids being allowed to carry daggers to school....based purely on religion.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Monday, 7 January 2008 10:57:22 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Boazy, this ‘us/them’ attitude is a divergent system and can only exacerbate tensions both here and in the rest of the world. So, finally the message (that we must converge)has soaked in?

But, your hypocrisy again comes to the fore in your last two paragraphs.

Yet again you want to high-jack a thread (this one on indigenous issues) for your own perverted agenda - typical Boaz-david
Posted by Q&A, Monday, 7 January 2008 11:22:13 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yindin/BOAZ_David,

It's my experience that there's two different types of barriers between people of different cultures. Firstly there's a more 'active' case of someone thinking: "I don't like that person because they're a <insert difference here>" which requires a much more direct approach to address. Secondly there's the case of "I don't understand that person's culture, I shouldn't interact in case I offend/look like a fool." and this is the type of barrier that education can address.

The article is specifically talking about training for people who are dedicated to serving aboriginals, and it is important for them to understand the people they are supposed to be helping. Of course, there is no such thing as a homogeneous 'aboriginal culture' so it is questionable how much a centralized training scheme would help, and how much it would impose a false understanding.

Of course I still maintain my general premise: that the 'issues' we see with Australia's aboriginals are because we are seeking to impose western rights and standards, without requiring western responsibilities and lifestyles. You can't have one without the other. You can't live in remote tribal communities and have high levels of education and health. You can't have tribal cultures and justice systems and expect western civilities and crime rates. I'm not trying to be negative about aboriginal culture, just merely pointing out that a different culture will have significant material impact on life.
Posted by Desipis, Monday, 7 January 2008 11:57:59 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I applaud the well researched and well-written article by John Mathews.

I have been researching the issue of Stolen Generation and Child Abuse for quite a few years now.

I have spoken to many aboriginal (first grade footballers) in my time, seeking their input as to how can some aboriginals rise above adversity and others not. They have been quite open, frank and honest with their stories from childhood to becoming a first grade footballer - for which I thank them.

Most stories of their childhood have been quite horrific - as John Mathews portrays.

The response from 99% (aboriginal footballers) I have spoken to were they were the "lucky" ones. They didn't come from wealthy families, they came from the "land" - or mother earth as they describe it.

They wanted to make a difference in society, they had the passion to want to be equal in a white society - that's the difference. They strove to achieve excellence. The lads I spoke to left their tribes in search for schooling and opportunities in the "white man's land". They were assisted by the Government at the time.

Three footballers I personally know have gone back to their "tribes" after retiring from football, and are doing their bit in order to foster the knowledge, growth and education of the youth within their particular tribes.... I applaud them.

We can change this situation around, it won't happen overnight. It won't happen if both State and Federal Governments bury their head in the sand and say, "Oh, this is just too difficult".

I believe in fostering youth, but you need first to give youth a "challenge" and the opportunity to believe that education does bring rewards, not just lip service from some government official.

I certainly believe the Indigenous Culture can survive in co-ordination with education, knowledge, skills, health benefits and being successful in being gainfully employed - a sense of pride that we all have.
Posted by SAINTS, Monday, 7 January 2008 6:23:09 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
This article could have been published in the 1950's or earlier.
I don't think it is as erudite and many have claimed it is here.
In fact I think its mediocre in its composition and theoretical approach. It certainly speaks to the journalistic style that the Australian has been cultivating for many years now. Sensationism and then solutions.

I'm also reading with interest everyone's analysis on cultural convergence and relativity. Which is also no different to how narratives about Aboriginal people (by white people) have been penned for over two centuries. Usually in their absence.

These narratives are usually

*romantic
*racist
*anthropological
*or combinations of all the above three.

More soon, watch this space.
Posted by Rainier, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 1:04:15 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
A thoughtful, carefully prepared article. The divide needs to be lessened if both cultures are to benefit from each other.
Posted by arcticdog, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 10:12:19 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Rainier
I would like to dispute your assertion that this article could have been published in the 1950s.

All the evidence referred to by Matthews to support his arguments comes from the experience of more recent decades, the period after the granting of citizenship rights and following the introduction of several versions of self-determination and since welfarist programs have had their impacts. I contend that this article clearly could not have been written before these things occurred, as it would have lacked most of its content.
Posted by Dan Fitzpatrick, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 2:15:08 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dan,

As always you dispute anything I comment on.

And which citizenship rights are you refering too pray tell?

And who the hell is Matthews to form an opinion other than from text books?
Posted by Rainier, Tuesday, 22 January 2008 8:08:39 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Rainier
The citizenship rights I was referring to are the rights to vote in all elections, drink alcohol, be counted in the Commonwealth census, have specific Commonwealth legislation drafted for the benefit of (such as the ALR (NT) Act 1976), and the right to receive equal wages, all of which were rolled out for most Indigenous Australians in the 1960s.

Access to pensions, UB, health services, legal aid, public housing etc mainly came about for most in the 1970s.

Of course the gradual roll-out of land rights legislation also qualifies, starting with Dunstan & Steele Hall in SA in the 60s, the NT in the 70s, NSW in the 80s, Native Title in the 90s, and Tasmania more recently. Land rights justice has still not been delivered properly in WA, Vic. or Qld (as far as I am aware).

Matthews, along with numerous Indigenous researchers, worked on many health-related research projects in Indigenous communities across North Australia for quite a long period before he took up his present academic position in Melbourne. See for example http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/xmas98/mathews/mathews.html

I am not trying to pick on you - I just have a reasonable working knowledge of some aspects of Indigenous affairs, and expect people to stick to the facts when they publish information or opinion on blogs etc. I can assure you that there are other writers whose statements I question or attempt to correct a lot more often than I do yours. You may be surprised to learn that I actually often agree with a lot of the things you say.
Posted by Dan Fitzpatrick, Tuesday, 22 January 2008 9:41:07 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
"caught between two worlds"

Arnold Toynbee notes Peoples in this position forms of archaism and/futurism: Doesn't work. Best join the present and secondarily retain langsyne traditions. The Scottish Clans were familial and tribal, yet these people are centred in modernism, while still revisiting/honouring the past in a plausible fashion today.
Posted by Oliver, Tuesday, 22 January 2008 10:12:16 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It would be beneficial for Australia if Rudd and his Government do the right thing and show long absent leadership and appoint a Minister for Aboriginal Affairs AND Reconciliation.

2/3 of Sun Herald readers don't want to say Sorry .

Probably not surprising ,but it shows we have an enormous amount of work to do to educate a large section of the Australian Public as well as starting Aboriginal Australians down the path of economic independence while maintaining their cultural identity.
Posted by kartiya jim, Tuesday, 22 January 2008 11:24:14 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy