Wiz, in checking around for affordable housing in the Melbourne area, I’m
sorry for not taking into account where you work, where your mother lives
etc, but I don’t know these things.

My point was that there is in fact affordable housing around for first
home buyers. REIV claim the median house price in Cranbourne to be 230k, not 320k
as claimed by Billie. Ok, so the shopping is not up to your standard,
how sad :)

Blackburn is clearly a suburb being targeted by rich yuppies, for the median
house price hardly moved for 5 years, then jumped by 250k in 6 months,
unlike the battler suburbs.

Smithy, I’m not complaining at all, just responding to those who have been
and continue to. Pericles makes a wise observation, its all relative. First
home owners struggled 30 years ago, they still do, they still buy houses.
Some just complain louder then others, some find solutions and get on with
it.

The WA export based, globally focussed economy where I live, it seems
is quite different to yours. Rationalism, the global economy, reduction
of tariffs etc, have been huge beneficiaries for today’s generations.

Availability of credit means that young kids in their 20s can go out and
start their own businesses and earn 6 figures, which many do. Consumer
goods, food, wine, telecommunications, services, roads, travel,
workplace conditions, etc have all improved amazingly in the last
30 years and most are much cheaper.

Aids has been around for 25 years or so, not exactly something new.

Anyone who wants a job in WA, can find one. We are down to the
unemployable, those on drugs etc. If fact we need a bit of a recession
here, to bring things back into some sort of reasonable state, unlike
right now.

Yes, median house prices have increased as more wealthy Australians
plow their money into their houses, to gain better houses and tax free
profits. But there are still affordable houses around plus two incomes
to pay for them, unlike 30 years ago, when many women still expected
to be kept.

Yabby, I was with you until that last comment!! I dont believe that young women 30 years ago expected to be kept, although perhaps some of the older ones did (but then they were not usually struggling first home buyers either). It WAS a lot harder to get childcare, and even find an employer that would hire a mother though.

Anyway, lets not get off topic! The problem is that Blackburn is a really nice suburb. Safe, good transport etc etc. I dont live in Vic, but I have friends that have lived in Blackburn for years. It really is a nice place. Every bleeding-heart throwing in their two-bobs worth here would do well to remember that first home buyers have rarely been able to afford the nice places first. I agree whole-heartedly with your comment about the shopping at Cranbourne - if that's all there is to whinge about people need to get a life. Put more money into paying off the house so you can afford somewhere you'd prefer rather than wasting money shopping anyway. Look at this as a bonus!! All you need is a supermarket anyway.

I just cant get over the complaining! Few are living in bark huts anymore or living off rabbit and galah, so arguably our standard of living has greatly improved. It is no where near as bad as many would have you believe.

Sorry to say it, but you guys really have no idea.
6 years ago, as a young couple with two above average incomes, we were barely able to afford a 2br weatherboard house in Blackburn. 25 years ago, my parents, at the same age, on a single reasonably-good income, were able to afford a 4br brick house in Mont Albert (<10km from the CBD), which now has a median house price over $800,000.
Today, a young couple on a single income can't even afford a fairly basic home that's 45km from the CBD, and on two average incomes that's about the best they can hope for.
As a result of the house price rise in Blackburn, we were (just) able to afford to upgrade to a slightly bigger 3br 1970's brick house (still not as nice as the house my parents had in Mont Albert), but in a less desirable suburb, meaning considerably longer drives to our most common destinations (and no public transport options).
And Yabby, if you live in Cranbourne, almost everything else in Melbourne is an hour's drive away - except perhaps occasions on the weekend when the freeway is moving well, then it's 30min.
As far as the quality of the shopping goes, while it's not something personally would bother me much, the quality of consumerables (including food) that is available within a reasonable distance does have a significant impact on standard of living. As I said before - why shouldn't today's first-home buyers expect a better standard of living than you had 30 years ago? They would hardly expect you to have put up with the standard of living of the generation 30, or 60 years before you.

Wiz, perhaps CG and I understand this argument far better then you think,
as we have lived through both sides of it.

Trying to compare your life with that of the late 60s early 70s, is like
comparing apples and oranges, as things are so different. There were
no flash shopping malls, no VCRs, faxes, computers, ipods, fast food
joints, wine industry, flash restaurants to speak of, etc. Most had a
3 by 1 fibro, a Holden, (forget air conditioning ) a black and white
telly and a transistor radio. Entertainment meant going to the beach
or to the drive-in occasionally. People lived frugally, took some sandwiches
with them when they went anywhere, as that is what they had been taught.

As they lived so frugally, one wage covered it. Yup houses were cheaper
as wages of workers to build them were cheaper. People were poorer,
Melbourne was half its present size, so less competition for land.

It is virtually impossible to compare your spending habits with those
of your parents, as there are so many variables.

What I did was feed some basic data into the REIWA housing affordability
website. I assumed a net income for you and your partner, of 5000$ a month,
given your claims. Most likely you earn far more. I assumed a car payment
of 95$ a week, 8%interest and a 30 year housing loan. According to them,
you should easily be able to afford a loan of 268k$, based on those figures.
Given that you paid 200k for your Blackburn house, even if you borrowed it
all, that should have been a breeze.

Wiz I know couples who earn 100k$ a year, who cannot cope, I also know invalid
pensioners who have something left each week. We all have different spending
habits, but ultimately we are all responsible for our own actions.

In my experience, doing it tough for a while is actually quite character building.
You really start to appreciate what you have, rather then whinge about what
you don’t have.

Country Gal, I’ll address your comment when I have some spare words.

Yabby,

Pericles wasn’t making “a wise observation”. He was attempting satire or at least it appeared that way, a bit like ‘Groundhog Day’ really.

As for your list: “Consumer goods, food, wine, telecommunications, services, roads, travel, workplace conditions, etc have all improved amazingly in the last 30 years”

I’m really sorry that Perth was that bad 30 years ago, Sydney wasn’t. Around here most of that stuff was just as good or better 30 years ago if not the “improvement” has had an equal & opposite downside.

A lot of the things you mentioned may have improved for those that emulate the leisure & travel lifestyles portrayed in the weekend magazines of broadsheet papers .For others, some them young, in regional areas or on lower-incomes the easier, globally provincial life of 30 years ago was more affordable, less stressful & better.

Some in the regional towns remember when they had banks, trains, post offices & hospitals.

Your reference to the “The WA export based, globally focussed economy” is another way of saying ‘a quarry for China’. Those that are entirely relying on the mining boom are putting their faith in Asia’s economies rather than our own. At least the Asians (for all their faults) invest most of their money in productive industries. The Reserve Bank document that I referred to earlier:

http://www.rba.gov.au/Speeches/2007/sp_dg_250907.html

clearly indicates that of all the money borrowed for investment purposes in Australia over the last ten years, far more was sunk into to the speculative boom in housing than any other industry & nearly all of that went into speculation in the price of existing homes rather than construction. It is little wonder that we are relying on the Asians.

I think that many of us here would prefer that Australians put the bank’s money into something more useful than driving up the price of assets we already own.

Any policy that enables that outcome is only there for the benefit of those that gained an advantage & some of the beneficiaries it seems will say virtually anything to justify their lot.

MrSmith

Yabby, I have to confess I wasn't entirely sober when I wrote that post, so apologies for any offence - also I slightly mistated our case: it was only me earning an above average salary, my wife's was almost certainly below average at the time - and no, we weren't pulling 5000 net a month at that time. By "barely afford" I meant it was absolutely the most debt we felt comfortable taking on. Yes the bank would have given us slightly more if we'd asked for it, but we knew my wife would be leaving work at some point to have a baby, and didn't want to be living hand to mouth just to pay the mortgage.
Again though, I'm not complaining about our situation - compared to young couples looking for their first house today we were very lucky (indeed, we were lucky even 6 years ago).
And while it's true that there are many consumerables, luxuries and lifestyle choices available to today's youth that weren't available 30 years ago, the cost of those isn't really all that great, and forgoing most of them wouldn't make a huge difference to what sort of mortgage is affordable. At best they're the difference between being able to save up a decent deposit and not, but while important, that only gets you so far. I also can't help wondering whether most people would happily trade in their wide-screen TVs, leather sofas and patio heaters for a chance to live anywhere that doesn't mean having to spend 3 hours a day sitting in traffic - were such a choice feasible.