If you can't see it surely it's not there. Does society care about others enough these days; the Olympics are more important to freedom of rights in China, Darfur, Middle East and the overseas list goes on. But closer to home; do people care about the homeless, poverty, disadvantaged by psychiatric illness, physical or mental disabilities. People thought that economics was the most important thing let's hope people will show that they do care about our global family members and that Australia will stand up against the use of torture, world wide.

It is easy to have a philosophical stand against torture just like it is war. If however torture was about to save the lives of your children then 99 per cent of parents would see it as justified.

runner, the situation where torture is needed to save your children is pretty damn unlikely.

The 'ticking time bomb' scenario is frequently peddled by those who back torture as a legitimate method - the idea of course, is that torture is needed in a hurry to avert some terrorist attack.

Only problem is, pretty much every single study on the subject has determined that torture just makes the victim tell people what they want to hear and it isn't any guarantee of accuracy. In an event where time is a factor, there's nothing stopping the victim from telling lies as a delaying tactic.

It also makes people confess to things they haven't done.

So I don't really see any substance for the torture argument at all. Of course you can argue that parents would back it if their children's lives were at stake. The same goes for absolutely everything.

Oh dear, runner. And you call yourself a Christian?

HI TO ALL THE FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS , now we have a new prime minister will mr rudd say sorry to the forgotten australians the victims of the most horriffic crimes against children in our states run institutions ,as the australians goverment for the last past ten years have been coring up these rapes and abuses that we children suffered whilst in these states run institutions through out australia we are real victims the goverment has been covering up about now mr rudd is in power are we going to see the truth come out finally i hope so as we do not want to see any more new forgotten australians as we had in the last few weeks back , we are real and still alive there are those who are no longer with us though we still fight for those who are no longer with us and that of the new forgotten australians and those who are still surving and still suffer with those nightmares of what happend to us as children while in the states run institutions of australia , we are the real victims of rapes abuse slavery and will not give up the fight for justice and we will not stay lilent any more , regards micheal a forgotten australian

this is to all you people who don;t care about us victims ,i can only hope that what we suffered as children that none of your friends or faimly members have to suffer what we suffered as children while we were in care of the australian goverment run institutions we are real victims still living the hell we suffered and to all those sick --uckers out their your days will come to an end in the worst ways i hope thet could be imaginable , give us victims the forgotten australians justice ,