Runner, if you read a bit of history, you'll find that political protestors are usually a bit raggedy, like you say, yet they are called the Avante-Guarde by philosophers, and believe it or not, the young Jesus was inclined to mix with them, even rough fishermen.

Also they're not often con-men, smooth types we've had to run out of town in the bush in the the old days - one or two even found in bed with a cockie's wife

I've read Don Chipp's book "Keep the bastards honest" and it's a real eye-opener as he explains how he was sucked into the pro-Vietnam debate. He always said it was his biggest regret and he was absolutely devastated when John Howard decided to go to war in Iraq.

I know that the Democrats leader, Lyn Allison, has been doing a lot of work trying to ban the use of cluster bombs by the Australian military and Jim Page is right.....she's been painted a left-wing nutter as a result. Apparently if you oppose collateral damage (aka civilian death and injury) your opinions aren't worth squat.

Having a well-equipped military is an unfortunate necessity but being forced to fight fair is just too much of an effort for some it seems.

Democrats amending Native Title. Er, I was working with the ALP at that time in Canberra and the Dems made no such amendments. They passed it.

A pretty good article. Personally I wasn't too upset when they passed the GST. I didn't believe in taxing food or books but I could see the benefits of a broadbased consumption tax. The way the Dems went about it and the bickering and inflighting afterwards effectively killed them off as a political force.

I agree that things started to go down hill for the Dems back in 96 with the Kernot defection. Actually, their vote had been declining even before that.

Still, way before the Greens were on the scene the Dems were the only voice fighting for peace in the middle east and fighting - sometimes literally - racial prejudice.

Bushbred

To somehow suggest that the Democrats never had any conman or women is a bit rich. You had the defectors (one notable unsavoury incident in particular.) There is not a party that has not got people unaffected by the adamic nature or being just human if that is more pc. My point is that if they are so peaceful(in theory) why are they the more likely to demonstrate violently than any other part of our community. Somehow I could not see Jesus throwing urine on police. He might drive out money changers out of the temple but He even allowed the Romans to take Him away to be crucified when He could easily of got out of it. Now thats radical.

runner: "No one has ever been able to explain why those who oppose the so called war mongers are usually the most violent people in our country. They don't know the meaning of peaceful demonstration thinking it okay to throw urine and abuse at anyone that disagrees with their opinions... Maybe if the Democrat and Greens supporters learn what peace means they might gain a little credibility."

Runner's at it again with his tiresome mantra, but this time I'll call him on it.

If runner has any evidence that "Democrats and Greens supporters" have ever "thrown urine and abuse at anyone that disagrees with their opinions" at any kind of demonstration, he should put it up here.

Otherwise he should shut up.

to Runner,

i'm not sure if you'll ever read this post, but don't you think it's overstepping yourself to say that green protests are inevitably violent and this violence is inevitably caused by people supporting the democrats and greens? kind of a big leap if you ask me.