CHERYL... you said:

>>A BA can open students to new ways of thinking as well as tolerance of differing opinons<<

I find this 'artsy' view quite intriguing. Could you help me out here without me saying too much at first.

IF.... the differing opinion one encounters the day after graduation is of a totalitarian nature.. whereby if that 'view' attained power, it would mean
-the end of democracy.
-Establishment of a Theocracy.
-Rule by terror.
-Hacking off of hands for serious theft.
-Stoning to death of people who have 'affairs'.
-Stoning of homosexuals.
-Execution for blasphemy.

can you please.. please explain to me how one can be in the slightest bit 'tolerant' of such intolerance ?

I mean.. we can 'tolerate' such views when we perceive them to be a non threatening tiny social and demographic minority, but lets say people who hold such views were..
-45% of the population ?
-Constantly lobbying for the implementation of such things

Would you be as "tolerant" ? :)

Luv 2 hear from u about this -truly.

I suggest that if an 'arts' degree churns out mindless social zombies who tolerate the intolerable.. then get rid of the arts degrees and replace them with HISTORY degrees and focus on the years 732 in France (Tours) and 9/11 1683 in Vienna Austria. (do you notice anything significant about that 2nd date ? if you look up this link,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna
you might see a symbolic connection with the date when 9/11 took place in the USA.

History was determined by the skill of Polish sappers/moles detecting a large 'IED' under the gates of the city and diffusing it :)

Er, Boazy. Virtually everybody who majors in History at an Australian university does so under the rubric of an Arts degree. You might even like to try it sometime - if you pass, you might show some semblance of knowing what you're talking about on the subjects of both history and university degrees.

Currently it's quite clear that you know little about either.

Turnrightthenleft
I spent many years analysis different things when working in a laboratory, and that takes thinking.

Why does something need to be analyzed, what tools or forms of analysis should be used, what is going to happen to the analysis data, how should the analysis data be presented etc.

All requires thinking.

There is also nothing wrong with learning by rote or memorizing things. Learning how to ride a bike is learning by rote, and if you consider how neural pathways are physically established in the brain, learning by rote becomes necessary, (or someone is more likely to forget).

CJ..... I kinda think you missed my point there.

and..... of course.. you didn't miss an opportunity to impugn my own character :) How many times must I remind you.. that room :) those dolls... "Its not about me".....

If I may have a little dabble in 'chucking a rock back at you'..... you seem to feel you have the benefit of said degree in your own hip pocket.. and it makes me ask "why don't I see the evidence in your posts?"

Studying history in an Arts degree is good. But I'd be interested in knowing 'which' streams of history are studied, and with what emphasis and which selection.

One gets the impression that the focus of most 'Arts' degrees is to show from history how 'evil' we (The West, Britain and America and Australia) are.

I'd rather see an honest study of history..

1/ REALISTIC.

a)"Yes.. the various Western Empires and colonial efforts did have a very selfish, greedy and evil element in them"

Last night I was chatting with a Sikh in my gym about Ghandi, he didn't have anything nice to say about British rule..nothing.

b) Our history is just 'history' and is common to the expoits of mankind universally. "Its all about territory"

2/ VALUES. There are some bright spots on our historical landscape.
The freedom we currently enjoy did not come from 'nowhere'.How we have this freedom, what processes unfolded to give it to us.. how did we get rid of the slave trade etc etc.

3/ THREATS.. always should be studied. What are the likely sources of challenge and domination, what drives them... based on historical manifestations of such threats.

IN SHORT.. History should be a broad strokes SWOT analysis of our present based on the past.

I don't see much evidence of this in the student youth of today.

I know... I'll do the 'sign' thing at RMIT again "The War in Iraq is good" :) and see where that leads (besides a stay in intensive care)

life expands where ever it can, trying to find a living.. law pays better than trades, so we have more lawyers than electricians. when you finally get too many lawyers, they expand into politics.

the arts degree is a feature of a different society, wherein the ruling class didn't have to work, and felt so secure that they could pursue intellectual hobbies.

some people will still 'do' an arts degree, to get a certificate of upper class membership without the need for great effort or intellect. most of these will come from upper class families who can afford to educate a 'generalist' without too much concern for professional payoff.

so the arts degree will continue, but play a much smaller role. the 'strivers' from law school will occupy the ecological niches once held by the gentry.

I thinks Patrick Begley's comment pinpoint the one great contribution that historic Western Education contributes to our modern utilitarian obsessed world - the power of thinking skills - especially building these skills from the fundamental antecedents of knowledge in an area of study. This is why engineers and medical doctors and other 'focused' professionals from western universities are so highly sort after in our world. They have the ability to work through complex and ever changing stuations they face by drawing upon these sets of antecedent principles. The Arts is based on this fundamental belief and we lose it at our peril.