61, My apologizes.

I thought you might be someone who doesn't like something, so they refer to it as being “male”. The author would know about this, as so many of her sisters at universities and quite a few teachers will carry this out.

It is interesting how so many of them do it, but they never refuse money from men

Frank says ‘But your claim that, "Every child who attends a non Government school releases money to be spent in Government schools" is misleading.

Another way of putting it would be to say that every child who attends a non-Government school attracts money that might otherwise be spent in Government schools. Every dollar spent by governments on non-government schools is a dollar that government schools won't get.’

And if everyone of the students attending non Government schools presented to their local state school, who would be better off? Where would all that extra funding come from?

Sr Joan M Winter OP

Sr Joan

The 'threat' of the prospect of all the students who attend non-Government schools presenting at their local state school is an old and discredited debating trick in the schools funding controversy. I'm surprised you rehash it.

You and I both know that that scenario is never going to happen even if all funding to private schools were cut to nought.

However, to indulge you for a moment: if it were to come to pass, I'd make a pretty safe bet that government funding for government schools would improve dramatically because those who now exercise so-called 'choice' would be appalled at the condition of these schools and would demand that improvements be made forthwith. (I believe the same thing would happen if all schools except local parish schools were closed.)

Parents who send their children to affluent schools are inoculated against the poverty of government schools. Powerful parent advocates are lost to the schools who need them most.

However, leaving that hypothetical aside, I note that you do not try to rebut my point about the majority of families having no choice of schools as things stand. Choice is no more than government rhetoric and ideology.

Nor do you take up my point about real needs. This surprises me because I would have thought that poor Catholic schools and schools for the disabled would be immeasurably better off under a real needs funding model than under the current SES funding formula which is a sham.

Frank,

You say, "You and I both know that that scenario is never going to happen even if all funding to private schools were cut to nought."

Maybe not, but it did once in the Canberra Diocese and that was the beginning of 'state aid'.

I have sat on the Board of one of our secondary schools for nine years since retiring from special education and the fees are between $6000 and $7000 per year. A lot of money yes, but the tens of thousands referred to earlier are still a long way off.

I think that I am now retiring from this discussion as my knowledge of the intricacies of general funding is out of date since my retirement because of illness.

Best wishes,

Sr Joan

http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A150589b.htm

"In January 1951 O'Brien was made an auxiliary archbishop in the archdiocese of Sydney. On 16 November 1953 he was appointed archbishop of Canberra and Goulburn. He was enthroned twice on 28 December, first at the cathedral of St Peter and St Paul, Goulburn, and later at St Christopher's Pro-Cathedral, Canberra. In 1955 he moved to Canberra and designated St Christopher's co-cathedral for the archdiocese. During his term the number of Catholic parishes in the Australian Capital Territory increased from one to ten, placing strain on finances and personnel.

"After lobbying for assistance, O'Brien accepted the Federal government's offer in 1956 to subsidize interest on money borrowed to build or extend church secondary schools in the A.C.T. Pressures on the New South Wales Catholic school system led to the 'Goulburn School Strike' in 1962, during which O'Brien's auxiliary bishop John Cullinane and a lay committee closed Catholic schools in that city. O'Brien publicly gave his support, emphasizing the right of Catholics to take action as private citizens. Privately he wavered. The schools reopened after five days, but the incident accelerated action to provide state aid for all church schools."

http://www.igoulburn.com/browse.asp?cid=761&sid=14&caid=0&cpid=0

"Toilets at St Bridgids School

"Significant in Australian history are the unassuming toilets at the former St Brigid’s school (next to St Peter and Paul’s old cathedral) in Bourke Street.

"They were the reason for the great Goulburn Catholic school strike in 1962.

"The toilets at St Bridget’s were deemed inadequate by the Education Department, who insisted that they be upgraded or the school would be closed.

"As there was no money available for an upgrade Bishop Cullinane informed the Government that if St Bridgids was closed all the Catholic Schools in Goulburn would be closed and all the students would be sent to Government schools.

"True to his word, all the Catholic schools were closed for a number of weeks with all the students descending on the Government schools.

"The system couldn’t cope and State Aid, for non-Government schools was set in motion."

Sr Joan

You say: "I think that I am now retiring from this discussion as my knowledge of the intricacies of general funding is out of date since my retirement because of illness." Thank you for your forthrightness. I wish you well.

Talking of forthrightness, OLO posters may have seen comments today from principals of wealthy private schools critical of Howard Government election promises of education tax rebates to all parents regardless of income level. The richer you are the more taxpayers' funds are rebated to you within the scheme.

These private school principals acknowledge that education grants should be means-tested and based on real need.

If these principals can see it, why can't the Howard Team?

It's not a matter of envy; it's an issue of need.