It never occurred to me that the author would pop his head up to try and defend his little piece of twaddle, but hey, it's a funny old world, eh?

Hello, RJA.

>>If a community is stranded from employment, education, transport, medical and shopping services, then it is fair to say that such a region is neglected by both state and federal governments<<

FYI, there are many, many communities in Australia that are far worse served for infrastructure than Macquarie Fields, but that do not have the same "issues".

Employment: Macquarie Fields even has own special programme - how is that "neglect"?

http://mediacentre.dewr.gov.au/mediacentre/AllReleases/2007/April/Tailoredemploymentprogrammesfordisadvantagedyouth.htm

Education: Are these somehow different from schools in other suburbs? In what way are they disadvantaged?

http://www.macfields-h.schools.nsw.edu.au/ and http://www.macfields-p.schools.nsw.edu.au/

Transport: The railway station is served regularly by East Hills-City and Campbelltown-City lines. How does that constitute neglect?

There have been other attempts to help, such as Bob Carr's effort:

http://www.communitybuilders.nsw.gov.au/download/macfield.pdf

Whatever the problems at Macquarie Fields, and I accept that there are many, you cannot simply blame everybody else. And to pretend that it is all the fault of the "morally bankrupt conservatives" is just about as naive as you can get. It is probably worth pointing out that a genuinely "conservative" approach to the problem would be to double the strength of the police force and build a couple more prisons.

There is no longterm value in cargo-cult suburbs that just expect handouts rather than working to solve their problems. If there is "neglect", then it is necessary to show the form that this neglect actually takes, rather than just whingeing.

And bunging it on doesn't work either.

>>how could a single mother of 3 that has a child with cancer and earns approximately 400 dollars a week be able to afford a 340,000 dollar house. Continue waffling, my friend!<<

She wouldn't. But is her condition a result of being "disadvantaged" by living in Macquarie Fields? In any event, she is better off than if she lived in, say, Parramatta.

If you are going to get your jollies from being self-righteous, RJA, prepare better arguments.

Pericles provides admirable comment in response to each of the crosses which RJA claims the poor McQuariefield roiters suffer.

However, I will add my contribution

“1. decent access to education and training”

What is the attendance rate at school and how much effort has the rioters made to find apprenticeships or attend further education, compared to the average “conservative”? have the rioters attempted to acquire tertiary qualifications like this conservative?

“2. sufficient transport services.”

I have a dislike for public transport so I choose to drive.
Are there no bus services to and from McQuariefields?
Should we provide everyone with cars to enable them to get from place to place and what sort of cars, not Bentleys I trust. How about those who have lost their licences? – chauffeurs?

“3. accessibility to employment opportunities “

I, presently, drive 50+k each way, each work day to different clients during the week .
“Accessibility” is a attribute which is subjective and dependent entirely upon individual attitude.
Like myself, I bet every other conservative’s “attitude” is more accommodating and flexible, toward “accessibility to employment opportunities”.

“4. access to medical services and the ability to pay for sufficient health care”

Are you claiming McQuariefields is a remote station in the Northern Territory?
I recall we all still pay medicare levies introduced by Hawke (the philanderer).
Or are you claiming there are no doctors or medical clinics within bus or walking distance of McQuariefields?

“living experiences of any individual or community, it would be difficult to ‘work harder’.”

Fortifude, self-respect, determination are some of the qualities which make “working hard” and “working harder “something which individuals and communities achieve daily, without the need for public acclaim.

I guess it comes down to, those who can “walk the walk”, do just that, walk.

Those who can only manage to “talk the talk”, complain about how tough and “unfair” life is for them and others.

I guess you are not up to “walking” on your own legs and seek to adjoin yourself to the pitiful who have given up and can only beg for alms and handouts

Once again the author has popped his head in with regards to this ‘twaddle’, and perhaps now that makes it a funnier ‘old world’. Interestingly enough, Pericles calls this article ‘twaddle’ yet seems enthusiastic and bothered to continue waffling within this forum. However, I thank both Pericles and Col Rouge for their comments. I must say these comments were a lot more intelligent than the previous ‘2 cent’ rants offered by both, as they have articulated central issues of disadvantage. They have taught me how desperate conservative arguments can stoop.

I would like to share a few observations regarding the desperation of such comments. (1) There’s an obsession drawing uninformed conclusions. For instance, by pointing out issues of social disadvantage, arguments in this forum have accused me of justifying crime. (2) The contextual aspects of the riots are ignored or used against lower class communities. (3) There is massive simplicity involved in analysing social tensions.

A common desperate conservative argument examines other disadvantaged suburbs and concludes that since other lower class communities have not rioted, the residents of Macquarie Fields must be inherently ‘criminal’. The laziness involved in this approach contradicts and embarrasses itself. Criminologist Don Weatherburn documents how other suburbs in NSW have higher rates of reported crime (although I don’t agree entirely with other arguments by Weatherburn). Using ‘criminality’ to understand the riots would also suggest that other suburbs with higher reported crime rates are likely to ‘riot’. Along this tangent, I can observe how I am told to ‘prepare better arguments’ by comments that are lazy, weak, and simplistic.

Let us now examine these factors of disadvantage

(1) education

Pericles had posted evidence that schools exist in Macquarie Fields, something that I had never initially doubted. Col Rouge has resurrected issues of truancy and the inability of ‘rioters’ to pursue apprenticeships. In the research conducted by Dr Lee prior the riots, staff turnover for these schools was extremely high, and educational resources were under-funded.

(to be continued)

Please note I do not doubt that other suburbs have these problems. Since the events of public disorder, attention has been drawn to these schools where community workers have attempted to deconstruct the stereotypes offered by conservative comments. I notice Col Rouge does not include university aspirations in the education options for the local community, showing the normalisation of maintaining lower class positions.

(2) sufficient transport services

Col Rouge dislikes public transport services and chooses to drive… and from what I can see also has an inability to understand that lower socio-economic communities do not enjoy this privilege.

‘Are there no bus services to and from McQuariefields [sic]’. There are Bus services in Macquarie Fields, according to the research by Dr Lee, many residents are unable to spend 20 dollars a day on public transport where bus services from the estate are rare.

‘Should we provide everyone with cars to enable them to get from place to place and what sort of cars, not Bentleys I trust. How about those who have lost their licences? – chauffeurs?’

I don’t think anyone would endorse your pathetic suggestion; it would help if you were more realistic in your proposed solutions. Pericles, there is a train line which is located far from the MF housing estate.

(3) accessibility to employment opportunities

Col Rouge’s understanding of ‘accessibility’ is based on the privileges of owning your own car and being able to afford current petrol prices. The link posted by Pericles concerns a media release dated 2007 – just a reminder the riots occurred in 2005. Since the riots, many community members have productively helped youth in the area, from the ‘Fair Go’ Project or the work by Father Riley. Before the riots, the research in the area suggested that employment opportunities in the area had moved away, making it difficult for disenfranchised youth to gain opportunities. I acknowledge that other communities also experience these disadvantages and it should be mentioned that criminalising youth does not enhance their employment opportunities

(Limited to 2 posts in this forum for the next 24 hours... to be continued)

(4) access to medical services and the ability to pay for sufficient health care

‘Are you claiming McQuariefields [sic] is a remote station in the Northern Territory?’

No.
Please read the article ‘The riots occurred at the Glennquarie housing estate located in Sydney’s far southwest suburb of Macquarie Fields’. There is a saying: 'If you ask a stupid question you get a stupid answer'. In this case, I was unable to provide a stupid answer to match your question.

I had included this aspect in my understanding of the ‘haves’ to raise issues regarding the relationships between lower class communities and health care. Disadvantaged communities that live in public housing consist of people living with serious illnesses and disabilities. To expect that families facing these issues have ‘choices’, constantly complain, and need to ‘walk the walk’ lacks any compassion and serious understanding of poverty. In your comments, please be more respectful to these communities and relocate such verbal trash to another chat area.

Another link posted by Perciles again strengthens my argument. This fact sheet documents how reported crime in the area has dropped – contradicting Pericles suggestion of the need for more prisons and ‘stronger police forces’. The fact sheet acknowledges disadvantages as FACTS, yet Carr had dismissed the understandings of social disadvantage. To dismiss inequalities and acknowledge the existence of inequalities is a contradiction, something common in the comments responding to my post.

Thank you both for your comments.

RJA

RJA “Disadvantaged communities that live in public housing consist of people living with serious illnesses and disabilities”

That statement is wrong.

Many communities, consist with some minority of serious illnesses and disabilities but do not riot and would not consider themselves as particularly “disadvantaged”.

“Disadvantaged communities” might exist, in a minority context, not because they include some folk with illnesses or disabilities but because they house the shiftless and indolent, the lazy and parasitic. Those among us who prefer to spend their dole cheques on booze, fags and the occasional hit of crack, smack or dope, rather than working to improve their circumstances and move out of their “disadvantaged” circumstances.

“and from what I can see also has an inability to understand that lower socio-economic communities do not enjoy this privilege”

I choose how I spend my discretionary income. It is more cost effective for me to drive and forego the joke of subsidised public transport and since my client companies value my services and remunerate me extremely well, I make no apology for doing so.

As for “I don’t think anyone would endorse your pathetic suggestion;”

I guess I overestimated how “sharp” you are and your ability to recognise sarcasm.

“I had included this aspect in my understanding of the ‘haves’ to raise issues regarding the relationships between lower class communities”

I am the son of a UK railway worker.

The only “advantage” I received was the insistence by my parents that I do something with my life, rather than waste it.

Who I am today might not comply with your sense of levelled indifference. That I decided not to remain in the place which life placed me is entirely my choice.

Importantly, self-knowledge includes recognising that I am not so “special” as to believe that most other people could apply themselves and achieve similar to myself.

That many do not achieve much and end up as “disadvantaged charity cases” is the result, generally, of the choices they avoid making and the pointless excuses of wallies, like you, who defend their indolence.