I disagree with your theory that doing a trade is too difficult and due to the fallover rate of 55% we need to do something about it.

What we need to do about it is stop pidgeon holing kids and saying smarties go to uni, the rest get out and get a job, and those that hate school can go and do a trade.

the fact is that the best and brighest get told by the teachers, who are suppoosed to guide kids, that Uni is the way. I never for a second considered doing a trade as i associated it with the kids who didnt like school.

It is basically promoted as an option for kids who dont know what they want to do, or for those who feel the child has no real propects it is a great tool.

If i was told that tradies have work generally for life, are in high demand, get paid more than the average university graduate and get a headstart of about 6 or 7 years on the rest of us in regards to being able to buy assets, it would have been a no brainer.

Tradies are the new rich, as opposed to many who go to uni,struggle through their 20's and end up the thirty somethings on the cusp. Most kids have it easy in 2007 and dont know how to do a days work and feel a trade has inferior prospects to university, which i would go as far as to say it is the complete opposite.

It is our society that creates this, if we had some of the brighter kids doing a trade instead of poxy things like forensic science where 5% get jobs the fallover rate would be less, as opposed to uni you get paid to do it, we need some of the best minds in these industries and by mid 20's you would be on the path to financial security

My parents vowed that their three sons would have trades and not go "down't pit". Elder brother became an electrician, I became a fitter and turner, and younger brother a plumber. None of us got to fall down a mine shaft or work with a pick and shovel ending up with respiratory problems caused by dust inhalation.

I have thought quite a bit about my 6 years of apprenticeship with a very enlightened engineering firm in the UK.

My guess is that about 5 of the years were occupied in socialising me into good work habits, allowing me to mature as a worthwhile employee, and becoming a responsible work person. I honestly think that, given the basic maturities, I could have acquired the actual skill bits with about a year of trade experience. In my view, kids should work at Maccas or the equivalent to learn the facts of life about work, and then be recruited for a year of intensive apprenticeship when they reach about 20 years of age.

Moreover, tradesperson-trainers should be helped to be good teachers of these apprentices.

There is plenty of opportunity for constructive change.

If your a Carpenter you can build a house from go to whoa,supervise other trades, all this I,m just a roofer,I,m just a door hanger is so much crap,I did a 5 yrs apprenticeship and worked in the building Ind for 30-40 yrs,most general foreman where Carpenters as a well trained Carpenter knows what has to be done onsite.
This is just the master builders justification for not employing kids as Apprentices for years cause it was all to hard and it might cost them money

Blaming the training system is a cop out. When we were 1st year apprentices we got paid 40% of a tradesmans wage. If we paid our 1st year apprentices $15 an hour I doubt we would have the same problems with non completions. Instead we want to pay them less than they get a Maccas and whinge about them as well. At least at maccas they are a "valuable part of the team". I am sure that a good look will find that the training system has little non completions and 19 century attitude to apprentices does. Worse than that these half trained people come out of the city where one person can hold the nail while another hits it, thinking they are trademan when in fact they are only half a trademans with the talent to stuff a whole job.

I completed a 4 year carpentry and joinery apprenticeship in the UK 15 years ago. It was a hard slog and many times I wanted to stay in bed rather than get up before dawn and work hard for 10 hours a day.
I learnt all facets of the trade as does all in the UK.
Doing an apprenticeship for just formwork, or 2nd finish etc(compartmentalising) is just a waste of time.
Although we are now in the midst of a rising economy, times do change, and if you do not have the necessary skills to do a broad range of work, you may find yourself scratching for work.
Further training after years of an apprenticeship would be one hell of a call espiecally when you're now into your 20's; and the money is never as good when your training at anything.
If you're going to do an apprenticeship, you may as well make it worthwhile.
I have owned carpentry and joinery (cabinetmaking) businesses in the Uk and here, and the cabinetmaking apprentices actually stick it out even though the money is not that great when they become qualified, this is because it is as easy as working at McDonalds. They have set hours, a controlled and comfortable working enviroment, good training plans, and a relatively easy time, as well as overtime rates etc.
On the other hand, a carpentery apprenticeship usually involves very early hours, long days, days off (due to weather), weekend work when busy, as well as copping a fair amount of abuse from other qualifed tradie's.
It is almost like having to take the abuse for a few years before you gain any respect.
A lot of these young lads will thrive in this enviroment and go on to become tradesmen. The other lot will get pretty sick off it and opt for the easier route e.g. cabinetmaker

I agree with realist, that the education department should be promoting trades as a good career, but I also feel the whole industry needs to look after their apprentices, by giving them security and routine.

I did a trade and it cost such that I never recovered my investment.
I think an apprentiship is regarded by most employers as cheap labour.
"Doing your time" is an old saying, and it is true.
We need to make the system more fleible, materials and method change but are not recognised. ie builder should replace, carpenter, bricklayer plumber. Periodic testing of procedures and method, employer
recommendation to qualification can be examined by an independent authority.
do away with time serving and trade jealousy is the answer!
fluff4