Daggett,

Did you read what I said?

Did I ever say anything to imply slavery was good or defensible on any level?

That shocking IR practises occur in third world countries is not in dispute, nor has it any relevance to the article or my commentry.

The 457 visa has been used to bring in skilled workers such as doctors nurses and engineers, most of whom earn more than the average salary and create work for existing residents.

In the last 30 years globalisation has reduced the proportion of people living at or below the poverty line from 60% to 30%.

The anti globalisation movement is like King Canute commanding the tide not to come in. At best it can be delayed, but like any force of nature it is inevitable.

Thanks Klaas.

In Klaas's past articles I have been quite critical of his ideas for electoral reform .... namely his thoughts and desire for non-compulsory voting which would simply deepen the democratic deficit . However, with this article Klaas proves he has class when it comes to dispelling this myth that the Howard Government’s performance and claims are of the “experienced hands” with their assumed “sound economic management”. Not just old blokes like myself but the majority of young people now see the Howard years as socially divisive and very much economically ...... the wasted years.

Shadow Minister,

Globalisation has destroyed the livelihoods of hundreds of millions who previously lived sustainably growing food for themselves. They lost their livelihoods because of mechanisation and the use of fertilisers and pesticides which are manufactured using our finite and depleting stocks of fossil fuels. Inevitably these agricultural practices must end, most likely with catastrophic consequences for many of the world's current population which has been allowed to grow to unsustainable levels as a result of the unsustainable food yields of the "Green Revolution".

However, in the meantime, one billion, that is one thousand million human beings, as of 2004, live in shanty towns on the edges of sprawling third world metropolises in desperate poverty with no economic role to play in our society, according to Mike Davis author "Planet of Slums". (See article in New Left Review of March - April 2004 at http://newleftreview.org/A2496 which has been expanded into a book of the same name published in March 2006 at http://www.versobooks.com/books/cdef/d-titles/davis_m_planet_of_slums.shtml).

It should be no surprise that those who obtain work are forced to endure the conditions in the Ranya Paew export seafood factory that I described above.

The statistics you give:

"In the last 30 years globalisation has reduced the proportion of people living at or below the poverty line from 60% to 30%."

... almost certainly bear little relation to the reality. This is because the indicators of living standard including the GDP and per-capita GDP fail to put values on non-monetary transactions in the rural economies that have been displaced by globalisation. They also fail to measure the true increases in the costs of living for displaced peasants forced to participate in the globalised economy. I have written about this deficiency in regard to Australia in my article "Living standards and our material prosperity" of 6 Sep 2007 at http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=6326

Where some third world people may have attained middle class living standards, it is almost certainly at an unacceptable cost to the environment as well as to many other members of their national communities.

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Neo-liberals are highly adept at concealing the social, economic and environmental devastation caused by their economic doctrine by citing statistics such as those you have given above.

Until you show us the basis of this and how they also account for those one billion plus human beings now living in shanty towns, I don't see why your statistics should be seriously regarded.

I consider you protestations of objection to the slave-like working conditions of the Ranya Paew factory to be hollow, given this seeming attempt to downplay this picture with those statistics.

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I commend to other readers the article "How Did We Get Into This Mess?" by George Monbiot at http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/08/28/how-did-we-get-into-this-mess/ which explains exactly what the role of neo-liberal ideologues is:

"Their purpose was to develop the ideas and the language which would mask the real intent of the programme - the restoration of the power of the elite - and package it as a proposal for the betterment of humankind."

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I can't say whether or not we can succeed in stopping the insidious effect of neo-liberal globalisation, but if we don't our living standards, together with our planetary life support system, will almost certainly be destroyed.

In regard to 457 visas, their is ample evidence that they are being cynically abused by lazy greedy employers. If Howard had done his job instead of acceding to the selfish demands of Australia's wealthy elite to save on taxes by axing, directly and indirectly, Government spending on training, we would have little need at all for any skilled migrants.

Why are we importing IT workers when so any with degrees and experience are forced to work in menial low-paid occupations?

There is copious evidence of abuse of the 457 visa at http://www.rightsatwork.com.au/community/showthread.php?t=690

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Bushbred, thanks for your encouraging words and pertinent observations.

Bushbred, I too doffs me' cap to you!

I too thank YOU Daggett. Would that I could post like you, but alas I aspire to the principle: "God give me patience; right bl**dy now!".

Oh! the shame of it...

With regards the 457 visa system being abused, I don’t know of any system that is not abused to some extent including GST, Medicare, centre link, etc, etc, etc. The question really is has the system overall benefited the country, and how can the abuse be controlled. With the 14000 or so legal immigrants to the country, many of which come in on the 457 visa, most provide desperately needed services, and their employment generally creates further jobs for lesser skilled residents.

The real threat to employment in Australia is the alternative to the 457 system, which is to ship the jobs off shore to cheaper more available sources.

With regards to GDP as a measure of growth, first year macro economics will run a student through the pros and cons of several measures, and it is universally accepted by economists that GDP (compensated for CPI) is the most accurate. If the GDP increases, there is prosperity, if it decreases, there is increased poverty and the correlation is almost 100%.

India in 1950 had a population of about 400m, virtually no industry, was a net importer of food and suffered from periodic famines and wide spread starvation. The population is 1B+, India is a net exporter of food, industry is booming with a growing middle class and food shortages are generally met by internal aid agencies.

Where’s the big bad bogie here? Most people then point elsewhere to Africa etc, where supposedly widespread corruption and bad governance has nothing to do with it.