I lived for many years in South Africa during the change-over period from Apartheid to Bpartheid. It is rumoured that the reason for Thabo Mbeki's attitude to HIV, which he has declared a 'benevolent disease' and not having any connection with AIDS, is that he himself has contracted HIV. The association between the two diseases is not one that he wants to admit, and it is this denial that is colouring his attitude towards the disease and affecting the health of millions of his African subjects.

So, a rumour? Not the basis on which any sort of discussion can be started.

Have there ever been any revolutionary leaders who were not just as bad and most times worse than the tyrants they deposed? They always promise power to the people but when its all over its always about power to them. Nice guys who believe in the cause are just being used by the more ruthless cutthroats who sieze power.

what about chavez (venezuala) and castro (cuba)? they have absolutely nothing on the tyrants deposed by the people through popular vote/uprising ...

sharkfin,

Umm hows about Mandela?

Not only did he try and get things going again for the black population of South Africa, but he actually followed the law and stood down when his term was up. You can't really ask any more from a revolutionary leader can you.

Unfortunately Mbeki is not fit to tie Mandela's shoelaces. I sometimes think that Mandela was 99.9% of the intellect, of the morality, and of the ethics of the ANC. Where once there was a far-sighted statesman, there is now only a shell. Mbeki is a man of small intellect and limited morality - rather than seek to end the tyranny in Zimbabwe he is more likely to slavishly follow its lead.

Mbeki has shown the world that he is indeed a weak and vacillating man prone more to bullying than bravery. He is Mandela's opposite in leadership style and character. Mandela introduced one of the world's most enlightened constitutions - giving human rights the respect it deserves.

Mbeki treats Mugabe with kid gloves because Mugabe is widely seen by liberation veterans in the ANC, ZANU and by other African political elites as a legend, credited with overthrowing a despised racist government and bringing about black empowerment under colonial laws that have no regards for freedom or justice.

African elites are prepared to overlook the often stated failures attributed to his land seizures and the consequent disaster that has unfolded in the Zimbabwian economy. His spin is that it's really all a Western conspiracy. The true believers and Chinese trade officials will vouch for that.

Mbeki fails any leadership test because he will not face up to the reality that Mugabe is a reviled despot in most of Zimbabwe. Elites are deaf to the misery of the public.

Mugabe has impoverished his own people and largely quelled dissent through the brutal use of all the instruments of the state. Thousands have fled to South Africa but many more get turned back at the border.

Sadly so many national leaders toaday are weak in science and strong in religion. They are characters who rely on strong arm military tactics to retain power.

Unfortunately most Asian leaders show similar vacillation to Mbeki in relation to the outrages of the military junta in Burma and the escalating pandamic of aids/hiv in their own countries. Public health policy is ineffective as a consequence of religious influence and quackery perpetrated on the ignorant.

The world desperately needs national leaders who promote secular, ethical, science driven public policy. Do we have such leaders anywhere? On that score, Australia could do much better than the prayer group ministers lead by Health Minister Abbott.

The opening post was to do with Mbeki's attitude to HIV and the "rumor" surrounding the reasons for that that attitude. That issue hasn't been addressed in any post. I'm wondering if Gerrymander just wanted to start an anti-Mbeki thread or to talk about the issue he raised initially?

Over to you Gerry.

I have missed the fact that the opener in this thread was by Bruce Haigh and not Gerrymander. My mistake.

The HIV/AIDS disaster unfolding in South Africa is a prime example of why I detest conspiracy theorists. The widespread belief on the African continent that HIV/AIDS is an imperialist plot by the West to make Africa dependent on Western medications is perpetuated by nutbags such as Dave Groll of the Foo Fighters. I often wish Curt could have taken Groll with him...

Ditch,

I'd give it up. None of the subsequent posters have paid any attention to the rumour. There's no need. Mbeki's leadership has been appalling, and we all would have got stuck into him anyway.