I think Glover has fundamentally read this correctly, except that he seems to praise Rudd for being more verbose than Howard.

Rudd's lack of discipline in sticking to time limits is actually worse than Beazley's. It means he often ends a speech to less enthusiastic applause than he started it with. (This is something Epstein has to work on.)

Howard, by contrast, is extremely disciplined about working within his limits -- whether he is working from a script or not.

Especially in this time with wall to wall 24 hour "news" politics is essentially a form of theatre with the necessary theatrical performance(s)from the key players.

It is also about perception and framing. Framing the parameters of both the shouting matches and the perceptions. The folks at the Rockridge Institute have told us about the importance of framing.

It seems to me that team Rudd have done their homework and not allowed team Howard to frame the various slanging matches, especially as team Howard specialize in polarising and exclusionary frames, which are almost impossible to argue against even if the frames are an exercise in deceipt and conceipt and fundamentally empty of any real content.

And quite frankly I find Howard incredibly boring---a one dimensional cartoon character---a combination of a hamster and Mr Magoo. And as for the rest of his cabinet, they are either boorishly arrogant and/or a joke---Abbott the arrogant---Downer a joke or a third rate comedian---lurkers and skulkers incorporated.

Rudd's use of Chinese was, as someone pointed out in the Advertiser yesterday, an embarrassment to the Chinese. Yes, an embarrassment.
It would have been acceptable if Rudd had used a simple greeting and then talked to the Chinese in their language in private. To do so in public was designed not to honour the guests but to draw attention to himself.
It was arrogant and insulting - and showed a remarkable lack of diplomacy from a former diplomat.
If Howard had done that (and I believe he speaks another language fluently too) he would have been criticised for being rude. Rudd-who-can-do-no-wrong was praised for being rude. Unbelievable.

This sort of article makes me think of "Denny Crane", for those who haven't seem the Boston Legal character his comment on anything and everything is nothing more than saying "Denny Crane".

Kevin07

Communications - the Chinese, at least, are ahead of us in hosting a multi-nation conference in this respect: they provide instant interpretation services, and do not impose upon speakers in that regard.
Why do we pretend to be just a second-hand nation? Self-imposed second-hand to Britain until 1939; to the USA since. We undergo cultural self-abuse needlessly. There is no shortage of talent here to supply what converence invitees are entitled to expect in relation to their own language.
If the conference organisers had been up to appropriate standard, an interpreter would have been instantly translating. And, if Rudd had inadvertently been making blue jokes instead of profound discourse - what a political public-relations win for J.W.H.
The Coalition team did not win on this one, and maybe it was a self-imosed loss. Perhaps.

On verbosity perhaps Tom Clark has been watching Question Time today. On a question about what Howard's hospital policy is Howard waffled for 15 minutes. Yep, 15 minutes, a quarter of Question TIme. During this waffle he said nothing and just abused everything Labor.

This is what we will hear from Howard and Costelloe in the House. Abuse and ignorance. Two boring themes, unions and "we're da gratest (purposely mispelt) on all things economic.

This is Howard as he really is. A whining, whingeing, vengeful and vicious little man with no future except at Senior's lawn bowls. But even then he'd seek an advanbtage and bowl overarm. NO BALL.

Rudd and the author are saddly out of touch with Aussies.

I'll ask one question. Ever been to a gathering where the overwhelming attendees are Aussies who speak only English and heard the response when small groups of people start conversations in another language?

I'd suggest they'd be politely asked, unless it's a union bar-b-que, to speak English.

Why do these characters think such unacceptable behaviour is appreciated and will boost Rudd's stocks in Australia? It's quite beyond me.

Communicat displays his Coalition membership. Being an expert on Chinese language himself I'm sure he'll oblige us with a complete post in Chinese to show his criticism of Rudd is from his own knowledge and not what some Liberal Party hack wrote in some obscure place in some obscure city's newspaper which no one reads there anyway. Whatever you write Commo (Aussie nick name for you mate) it is tainted with your political eye.

By the way when the Chinese Premier was saying how embarrassing it was what did you say back apart from "What"?

Keith also displays a view dating him back to the 50's (1750's that is). Sorry mate but we've had NESB people here since Australia was "colonised". And thousands of years before that too. Try reading mate.

Are you aware, Keith, that many indigenous Australians don't speak English. Before we arrived none of them spoke English at all. You see it's a foreign language in this country. Should we tell them to leave too or should they tell us to leave being people who don't speak the native tonge. Really Keith, what a racist and ignorant comment to make.

Wouldn't it be nice if people actually read what is written and appraised that rather than just regurgitating their usual tripe. Don't they get bored writing the same thing every single post? Perhaps they just cut and paste as there's no original thought going on there is there?

The author is spot on. Rudd can converse with the leader of the country which will become the leading world power or at least 2nd until they overtake the US. What does Howard do? Cock his head and say "Ay?". And then tap on his hearing device as the sounds he is hearing aren't English.

Keith and Commo are both fools if they think there was anything to it other than Rudd talking to someone in their own language. Any other connotation is simply unhappy Coalition barrackers showing their misunderstanding of today's Australia.

"...like speeches by the young John F. Kennedy"

I'm presuming the Labor speechwriter of this article didn't write the Rudd speech...or did he? ;)

Labor has to do better than that to persuade swinging voters like moi.

However Rudd's ability to entertain a Chinese leader is not the making of a national leader. It takes a viable Labor Team that is not hamstrung by the usual Labor factions and tough union baggage.

Rudd's outwould diplomatic ability doesn't do him much good in getting things done domestically. Handling the competing interests of the States, Unions and the Big End of Town is the real measure of a leader.

Its a circular problem - how can Rudd prove he is PM material without PM experience? One way for us to have more confidence is if we're permitted to get a look at each person in Rudd's final Shadow Ministery including their records and expertise. So far we've seen a lot of Rudd.

Its up to an increasingly fawning media to hand over hard details of the WHOLE RUDD TEAM and balanced analysis.

"with 300 words of pure charm" , Kevin Rudd would use that many words to ask someone to pass the sugar!
I've never heard anyone as wordy as him. By the time he finishes a sentence, I've forgotten the beginning of it.
'Earbasher' is the term I believe.

also you never hear Rudd talk of his 'team' as the PM did last night.
In fact it is rare to see or hear Rudd's offsiders and given their personalities, for small blessings, we are very grateful.

RobynH,

Oh dearie me...I've upset a labor voter. Back up your claim of racism. Show me.

All I've done is point out a social and behavioural fact.

Australians don't like the feeling of being left out, when people speak in languages they don't understand, at community social functions or gatherings. Nothing racial in that. There is definately an anti-social behaviour going on though.

Why do you think you can lecture us all on proper social behaviour...when you show you don't understand anti-social behaviour or indeed show support of anti-social behaviour?

The only hint of racism here is in your accusation.

As for indigenous people. They have my support and I wouldn't dare use them in a clumsey attempt to justify an unusual view of how the world works.

Re-gurgitate? Me? You have got to be joking! I have never expressed this view anywhere nor have I seen such an idea presented anywhere before. So tell me in your view is it true that presentation of new ideas when they conflict with your personal dogma are to be regarded as regurgitating?

Nice to see that you are typical labor though. When all else fails and commonsense highlights the latest faux pas of the latest Labor 'messiah' use lies and personal attack rather than debate the point. Don't you understand that's the sort of tactic that led to the election losses by Keating, Beazley and Latham?

The 50's, yep and yet another reminder of another great liberal era of prosperity, full-employment, diversity and abandoment of the working man's and the protectionists racist 'White Australia Policy'. No-one needs reminding of those and similar occurances under the great Robert Menzies team in government.

Wow. ALP speechwriter...*likes* ALP speech.

Next.

Maxine McKew has gone up to an over 50 percent chance of winning Bennelong according to the bookies - supposedly more reliable than opinion polls.

I wonder what all those Chinese people in Bennelong thought of Rudd's speech?

I can speak enough Chinese to greet someone in Chinese. (I also work in multiple languages so I hope I know when it is proper to use my linguistic skills.) Also my neighbour is Chinese (and a Labor voter) and he informed me that it has been seen as a breach of protocol by his community.
At very least it was unnecessary - and Rudd is far too wordy.
I will cease being wordy.

So no one objects to Stephen Harper speaking French when addressing the Joint Sitting on monday? (Mr. Downer no doubt understood).

This was for domestic consumption, as was Rudd's speach.

Cuacus; It's the Messiah!
K07; I'm not the Messiah.I'm just a mandarin.
Cuacus Only the true Messiah denies his own divinity.
K07; Alright I am the Messiah.
Caucus; Show us a miracle oh holy one,so we may pay homage to your wonderous powers!

So K07 swirls around three times and in a flash is dressed up impeccably as John Howard.

Serfs; We thought you could perform real miracles and rid us totally of the evil IR Lords.

K07; I can't perform miracles.Besides I said that I was the Mess IR and not the one true holy one.

Cuacus; Heretic,hang him,hang him!Look there is one Julia Giltedge.She walks like the messiah and will grant all our wishes.

Julia; I will grant all of your wishes.Do you want to see the Miracle of the Loaves and Fishes?

Caucus; Oh yes holy one!

Julia; Well you take the future fund expand the public service and tax the life out of the economy so no one has any work.

Serfs; That's not a miracle!

Julia; Oh yes it is.Jesus just turned less into more,but I can turn much less into nothing.

Caucus; It is the miracle of the semantics.

Serfs; We didn't know she was a Jew.

Caucus; It's a miracle.All hail the Queen of the Semantics.She is the true Messiah!

Communicat said:

'Rudd's use of Chinese was, as someone pointed out in the Advertiser yesterday, an embarrassment to the Chinese. Yes, an embarrassment.'

I would have thought that of greater embarrassment is that Australia's #1 guest of honour, the President of the United States, couldn't even properly remember the NAME of the summit, calling it 'OPEC', and again insulting Australia by saying that he visited the 'Austrian' troops in Iraq.

THAT'S embarrassing. Not someone who has been a diplomat in China for many years addressing them partly in their own language as a welcoming gesture.

HERE is the man that our current Prime Minister offers his undying support for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whhbPVrb5KM

'Oh whinge, whinge, Kevin shouldn't have spoken Chinese' - well Australia's happy to export its coal, iron ore, bauxite, gas, nickel, zinc, wool, etc. etc., and happy to import/buy all the cheaply made products they make in monumental quantities, but now apparently we are unhappy when one of our politicians speaks to the Chinese leader for 30 seconds in public in his own language.

The US President George Bush can't even make a speech properly. And yet the Liberal Party follow him like he's the Pied Piper.

With a few well chosen words Dennis has given us an awesome display of sycophancy.

I keenly await the ambitious ones speech explaining how, for the good of us all, we should vote for him when his nearest and dearest suffer so much for his ambitions. He dragged his dead father into the public domain. He is happy to see his brothers business crippled to serve his ambition. And he is happy to see his wifes business downsized. He is happy to besmirch Labor colleagues like Kelly Hoare by leaking personally damaging stories.

If he can do this to his friends and supporters, God help us all.

What Faustian pact has this man made?

palimpsest said:

"He dragged his dead father into the public domain."

And so did you - just now.

"And he is happy to see his wifes business downsized."

But he hasn't sticky-beaked into Mr. Howard's family life.

"What Faustian pact has this man made?"

No idea. Would you like to tell us?

Just out of curiosity, Communicat, where in The Advertiser did you find the following

>>Rudd's use of Chinese was, as someone pointed out in the Advertiser yesterday, an embarrassment to the Chinese. Yes, an embarrassment.<<

The only references I could track down were these.

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22376111-5006301,00.html

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22374407-5006301,00.html

Could you be more specific on how the embarrassment was caused, and to whom?

>>Also my neighbour is Chinese (and a Labor voter) and he informed me that it has been seen as a breach of protocol by his community.<<

How so? What protocol is this?

Isn't it a form of politeness, a compliment even, to use your guests' language in their presence, if you are able?

The only time this approach might possibly be questionable is when the translation leaves you vulnerable. Who remembers John F. Kennedy's famous "Ich bin ein Berliner"?

Which not only translates as "I am from Berlin", but also as "I am a jam doughnut" and "I am a bottle of of wheat beer".

Perhaps there were similar double-entendres in Kevvy's speech? Anyone know?

"power of a startling speech"

bwahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah,
cough,
bwahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha,
splatter,
bwahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha,
cough,
bwahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha,
deep breath and,
bwahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

A speech is 'startling.'
Its 'powerful.'

bwahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

What a load of k.rudd.

Pericles - try the letters page.
It is seen as a breach of protocol to require a translation from one language to another when that language is (a) not your native tongue, (b)not an official language of your country, (c) not understood by most present.
So, it was fine for Stephen Harper to use some French as French is an official language of Canada and his Canadian constituents would have expected it. (He was addressing them as much as us.)
It was not right or proper for Rudd to use Chinese as it is most definitely not his native tongue, nor is it an official language of Australia and it was not understood by most present.
The whole thing was entirely inappropriate, arrogant and rude. It was not intended as a compliment to the Chinese because he could easily have paid that compliment in private. It was nothing more than a publicity stunt of appallingly bad taste for which he should have been roundly condemned. Instead of that a pro-Rudd and very biased media made a virtue out of it.
If Rudd does that sort of thing on the international stage as our PM then he is going to cause great embarrassment to Australia.
The Chinese speakers in Bennelong would, I suspect, be wary of criticising Rudd in public. (Remember they are mostly from Vietnam and they are unlikely to make critical comments about anyone in front of a news camera.)Many of them will vote Labor because they believe they are required to do so. Just try and remember the politics of where they come from and you will understand why they will do as they told by the union movement.

DEAR COMMUNICAT: I can't speak Chinese and I understand that there are cultural differences that I may not detect, that overlay speeches, but I was in Berlin when JFK said "Ich bin ein Berlina" The smile on the German faces were the same as the smile on the Chinese President when Kevin Rudd launched into his brand of "lingo" and despite the fact that JFK was told he had said "I am a hamberger!" I do understand the joy of hearing my native language spoken when I am surrounded by a population I can't "Verstahen"

Nice work ARJAY, very funny.

Dr. Livingstone, I'm not in this for any gain, unlike Rudd who had a calculated motive in misrepresenting his background. Rudd has surely by now had his halo at least a bit tarnished. Even the most devoted supporters must be aware of his extraordinary ambition, his relentless working of the phones with the media, his obfuscation over the Burke affair, his "I wasn't told" excuse for the Dawn Service, his puerile "too drunk to remember", but not too drunk to know that nothing untoward happened...

Doc. we had to listen to sycophantic drivel about Latham a while back and I for one would hate to see you make the same mistake twice.

Rudd's IR proposals are a cop-out. His Iraqi troop withdrawl policy is unlikely to be carried out, and all else from him so far mealy mouthed or merely motherhood.

"Australians don't like the feeling of being left out, when people speak in languages they don't understand, at community social functions or gatherings. Nothing racial in that. There is definitely an anti-social behaviour going on though."

I once lived in Switzerland where it is normal for people to speak other languages, and considered polite to speak to visitors if you can in their own language. In fact anyone there who can only speak one language is considered lacking.

Those Australians who have made the effort to learn other languages can only admire him for his abilities.

Rudd has portrayed the future of Australia where multi-lingualism will be expected as part of a good education, and people will have lost their insularity and their pathetice arrogance towards non- English speakers. The old type ockers will no doubt be upset by the speech, but those with an eye to the future are thinking, at last a PM who does not embarrass us overseas by speaking only English.

Good fun! true watch the conservatives hurt! Howard told us he would stay around as long as his party wanted him.
Then refused to go when asked?
His party knows the damage tipping him into the street would do and did not.
Now John says it is not him but his party that drives the polls.
Outstanding!
We now see version 12 of the lets throw mud at Rudd story.
Let the polls talk for me.
Tapp Stu notice no one answered you? last or second last is your position in Charlton, less than 1000 votes? much less.

Logic

Those of us truely with an eye to the future are wondering why Chinese is somehow meant to be regarded by us, that great band of unwashed old ockers, as more important than Bahasa Indonesian, Sanskrit, the Turkic languages of Central Asia or even simple old C++. :-)

Palimpsest said:

- "Doc. we had to listen to sycophantic drivel about Latham a while back..."
There is nothing that we 'have to listen to.'

- "...and I for one would hate to see you make the same mistake twice."
What mistake is that?

- "Even the most devoted supporters must be aware of his extraordinary ambition..."
I would say anybody who aspires to be Prime Minister of Australia has extraordinary ambition.

- "...his puerile "too drunk to remember", but not too drunk to know that nothing untoward happened..."
Normally if a patron of a strip club does something 'untoward', they are forcibly removed from the premises. Strip clubs are usually strictly controlled environments. So, logically it is possible to have a deficient memory from over-drinking in such a place, but at the same time be sure that 'nothing untoward' happened.

- "...his obfuscation over the Burke affair"
The fact that dodgy businessmen hang around politicians is of no surprise to me whatsoever.

- "Rudd has surely by now had his halo at least a bit tarnished."
How childish.

- "...his "I wasn't told" excuse for the Dawn Service..."
You pretend to care about a Dawn Service that he didn't attend? Do you care that Howard and Bush have created just under 4,000 new reasons for future remembrance services?

Howard and his mate Bush have perpetrated crimes that utterly dwarf any of the petty accusations you can think of to throw at the Opposition leader. Howard should be behind bars. No question about that.

- "Rudd's IR proposals are a cop-out."
At least he didn't mess around with the IR laws in the first place.

- "His Iraqi troop withdrawal policy is unlikely to be carried out.."
At least he didn't send them there in the first place.

"...all else from him so far mealy mouthed or merely motherhood."
You seem a bit mealy mouthed too.

----

My opinion is that the article was dressed up more than David Jones at Christmas time. However I did like the bit about Downer. Let's hear his French, just for a laugh!

I see rudd is turning his backs on our indigenous people again.

Lets see
Hids sexual abuse and physical abuse in aboriginal children, but hey why worry about that the labor party will look after you.

Dont worry about the peadophiles that the Labor party hide either.

I am starting to wonder why the education union ignores this, or are they a recruiting ground.

I also find the nurses especially in WA believe in what Jonny is planning for hospitals.

Hand on its the states that are responsible and if they gave all the money that federal gave instead of only 60% then we would have better services.

And belly that is how much i will put on myself.

Labor a party for peadohile secracy and abuse.
Unions for unions not for workers as where were they for the privatisation of public transport.
Combet knew before the election I told him.

Workers will loss jobs and whos fault labors and the unions you were told.

So belly you and your pathetic mates might win but at least i stand firm for the people and not the disgusting type of people who are and as one would say are accomplaces in the disgusting treatment and deciet that you all show.

Being ex army my father ex union i am thankful that he know longer supports what labor is.

That is a predator.

Send that to kevvy.
Ill expect a summons.

Even he doesnt have any balls.

Stuart Ulrich
Independent Candidate for Charlton

It is funny watching the conservatives squirm. They know their leaders should be intelligent, articulate, and multi-lingual. Instead they have John Howard.

The comments on this page viz. 'Rudd's use of Chinese was...an embarrassment to the Chinese.' are hilarious. You guys are desperate. Rudd shows us that he is intelligent, a man of the future, and in tune with the region. And what is your response... you invent some bulls**t story about how Rudd embarrasses the Chinese. You guys are in deep s**t. Breathe deep.

And surely if the Chinese were so terribly embarrassed about it, it would be all over the Chinese newspapers. They certainly don't have trouble kicking up a stink when a Japanese politician does something they are insulted by.

I ask the poster Communicat to provide a link to a single Chinese newspaper article that describes how insulting it was, that an Australian politician spoke their language in public.

The Chinese would be too polite.
I based my comments on (a) a sound knowledge of the Chinese community, many of whom I have taught over the years, and (b) the private feedback I received from them.
Smiles often hide embarrassment in Chinese culture and the body language was, according to them, one of embarrassment.
This was being discussed at a meeting yesterday - where there were a mix of Chinese speakers and monolingual English speakers and a couple of multi-lingual speakers. One of the multi-lingual speakers suggested it was like taking people to a restaurant where there is a chef and a waiting service and then proceeding to take over the kitchen (I can cook/speak better than you) and ignore the waiting (interpreting)service while you proceed to deal with the dishes yourself in full view of the other diners as well as your guests.
Everyone present (over 20 people - 23 I think) considered Rudd's behaviour to be inappropriate but, as one of the Chinese speakers pointed out to me, it would be equally inappropriate to point out to the host (in this case Rudd) had behaved that way.
Some sections of Australian society are so focussed on Asia to the exclusion of the rest of the world that any Asian language skill is assumed to be a positive thing whenever and wherever and however badly it is used.
I was not going to mention it but I do speak an Asian language (among a number of others) - and at least as well Kevin Rudd. I would not however have presumed to use it in those circumstances

Communicat

'Some sections of Australian society are so focussed on Asia to the exclusion of the rest of the world that any Asian language skill is assumed to be a positive thing whenever and wherever and however badly it is used.'

That is an excellent point and I think I can recall a similar emphasis when trade with and tourism from Japan was on the rise. If I recall Japanese was held up as the regional language of the future, even though more people in our economic region, at the time, spoke Bahasa Indonesian.

Now while proportionally more people in our current region speak a Chinese dialect the languages of the region are far more diverse than seems to be recognised. The major languages are Chinese, Sanskrit, English and still Bahasa Indonesian. But the common language across the economic zone is C++. The emphasis on Chinese is a distraction. While China may become our biggest trading partner it behoves us to recognise our other neighbours and trading partners are not going to go away. And that is the point all the commentators have missed in Rudd's seeming concentration on Chinese to the exclusion of our traditional partners.

Once again the Labor Party and it's leaders are adopting a favourite among our neighbours and partners. Will they never learn? Once the Yank's, then the Indonesians, then the minnows among the UN, then China, then Indonesia, again *sigh*, and now China, again *sigh*. And the media still cops, accepts and plays up this exclusionist type of bulldust.

Ahhhh the more things change the more they stay the same.

Dr. Livingstone, I am glad that the criminal Bush, the man with his finger on the button, at least does not drink himself into oblivion.

Imagine it, Bush waking up after a big night out being confronted by the Joint Chiefs, " what did you do to Russia last night?"
Bush: "I don't remember, I was too drunk".

There are holes in the Rudd fairy-story big enough to drive an Abrams thru, and I'm happy to oblige you.

The Left often accuse Howard of being unnecessarily accommodating to the US.
I thought Rudd's excursion into Mandarin embarrassingly obsequious to China - a country somewhat less attractive, I would have thought, to a democrat.
It was also a gratuitous, calculated and petty-minded insult to the others present who did not understand.

palimpsest - "I am glad that the criminal Bush, the man with his finger on the button, at least does not drink himself into oblivion."

Where have you been? It is a well-known fact that George Bush was an alcoholic for most of his adult life, before becoming a born-again fundamentalist Christian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_on_the_Couch

Bush: "I don't remember, I was too drunk"

So, he might say that, or more likely, he would say "God told me to do it".

This is something George Bush actually said:

"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=310788&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y
(Israeli newspaper 'Haaretz', last paragraph of article)

SO, the current Prime Minister illegally took Australia to war because his mate George Bush believes he was told by God to do so.

I am not trying to convince anyone to vote for Rudd. It is none of my business who anyone else votes for. However it is very, very clear that John Howard should not be the Prime Minister of Australia.

Dr. Livingstone, fair enough, but nor is JH the subject of this thread.

keith

I attended a lecture by Kevin Rudd, he also speaks Swedish. Because the man speaks Chinese do you discount him because you think he should have learnt Indonesian as well? At least he does speak the worlds two most used languages (Chinese no 1 and English no 2). What can John Howard speak?

And please in English the language which is used in Indonesia is called Indonesian. In the Indonesian language it is called Bahasa INDONESIA. Bahasa means language. Malaysian is called Bahasa Malasia and so on.

Logic,

we are both right about Indonesian and Malaysian. But you can check it out.

Rudd lectures everyone ... you don't have to go to one of his 'official' lectures to know that.

My point about Rudd was that he is putting too much emphasis on relations with China to the detriment of relations with all the other Asian and Pacific nations. Mind you that seems to be the Labor tradition. Chifley with his on again off again intrigues with Indonesian and the bunch of UN minnows, Whitlam with a short-sighted and grand gesture of recognition of China, Hawke with his visas for Chinese students and Keating ...well he was simply no asset to diplomacy in Asia or anywhere else.

I really don't care what Rudd speaks but I know he doesn't speak with the authority, commonsense and statesmanship of Howard. And those are much more important, than language or dialect, in the grand scheme of diplomacy and politics. That's what Rudd should be judged upon ... not on his knowledge of languages. That's just so banal.

palimpsest - "Dr. Livingstone, fair enough, but nor is JH the subject of this thread."

I promise that if I write any further posts on this thread they will only be about Kevin Rudd.