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The Forum > Article Comments > The bushfire disaster in Greece was predictable > Comments

The bushfire disaster in Greece was predictable : Comments

By Roger Underwood, published 5/9/2007

Land use changes in Greece have caused major bushfires this year and these same changes are the cause of fires in Australia.

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Roger this is the best article I have read so far this year and you are on the mark about land management and the potential disaster waiting to happen here. For thousands of years the Jubaguy Bama in the Daintree Rainforest have burnt off areas of forrest to attract game and to aide some species of plants that we used for medicine and food to germinate.

Since the end of the Vietnam war, the management of our forests have been neglected and left overgrown with fuel, and with more city dwellers and their green agendas coming into the bush and Government's not investing in proper management plans these areas are a recipie for disaster.

After fighting fires at my in-laws house in the Adelaide hills during Ash Wednesday, and then the big NSW fire Ten years ago, I am not realy looking forward to the next one.
Posted by Yindin, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 10:46:48 AM
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Spot on Rodger and Yindin,
The subdivision of rural land to that of rural dwellings has created a vast problem with more fuel,poor access and people who have no fire knowledge and are relliant on emergency services. Rural people are, in fact, the emergency service. Your house must be built with the enviromant in mind and bushfire is generally the biggest threat. Its nice to have a house nestled in the bush, but look out next summer. The fires that took 500 homes in Canberra was not a freak. those conditions occur every summer.

My place has adequate water, good gravity presure, to keep yard green all summer. An under verandah sprinkler system is there and roof sprinklers as well. I use a pony in small paddocks to reduce the fuel outside the yard and I have my own small fire fighter on a 1 tonne truck. My house is my emergency shelter. I reckon the sprinkler system cost me say $2000 and I can't get an insurance discount.

If you read this Rodger. I reckon the current moves to centralized bushfire control is asking for more trouble. It does not work. Field officers that can actually take control and make decissions on the job is far better.

I could talk for hours or write a book, but i recomend that everyone should read 'The Complete Australian Bushfire Book' by Joan Webster.

Yindin, you may know of her. She's Vic and wrote the book after Ash Wednesday.
Posted by Banjo, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 4:13:32 PM
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How does the author explain the drastic reductions in bushfire losses and damages over time? I would suggest that he take a quick glance at bushfire losses over the past 100 years or so and check his conclusions.

The author also does not mention climate change as a possible driver of more regular 'mega-fires' (as they have unfortunately been termed). The author may not agree that these are important factors (a safe bet if he's coming from Jennifer Marohasy's blog), but many respected scientists do and it is disingenuous to not at least acknowledge them.

One could argue that improved emergency management and the greater involvement of residents in preparing and defending their properties have been far more effective in reducing bushfire losses than fuel reduction. Indeed, the evidence supports it. Losses were far higher when fuel reduction was at its peak.
Posted by JMD, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 4:46:06 PM
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JMD,
Firstly, I believe the author mentioned 'global warming' inhis third paragraph, but discounted it in favour of the three other reasons he wrote about. His perogative.

You claim losses have been drasticly reduced. Do you mean here or in Greece, where the author was writing about? If you mean here I would like to know which losses are your refering to.

1. Value of losses per year
2. Area burnt per year
3. Homes lost per year
4. Lives lost per year
5. Firefighters lives lost per year

Without looking up the stats, I expect the loss of 500 homes in Canberra could not be termed a reduction. The fires in Victoria last year also could hardly be termed a reduction in area.

The author may be correct about the change in Departmental responsibility in Greece, but I would argue the opposite here and I seem to recall the NSW NPWS getting some heavy critisism over not enough hazard reduction burning.

The changes here in land management and usage has had a significant effect on bushfire fighting in the southern areas of Australia and has raised the losses not reduced them. Adjoining me, there are now 12 houses on hobby farms and rural residential blocks, on what used to be one rural property with one house. Fuel loads have increased dramaticly. On the 30k road to town there is now only one functioning rural property, which employs one person. The balance is hobby farms and residential. Mostly both husband and wife work in town so exce[t for a couple of old retirees there is no one about during the day. This is not unique, and is the same near most larger towns and cities.
cont..
Posted by Banjo, Thursday, 6 September 2007 10:36:45 PM
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Traveling stock used to reduce the roadside fuel and roads were used as fire breaks. Now roadsides carry high fuel loads rendering them unsuitable for fire breaks and are more hazardous to negotiate by vehicle during fires. Local bushfire brigades are now made up of people who work in town mainly and have to leave work, travel to the local fire station,assemble,don their gear and go to the fire on the tanker. This increases the time taken to attend to fires.

More bushland is shut up for reserves, national parks or by private people wanting to keep the bush in a 'natural' state. These areas are carrying very high loads of fuel.

All these factors together have led to situations where fires get away and become very large under the right conditions.

People have to realise that when large fires are running, the brigade resourses are simply not there to protect every house. Homeowners have to take more responsibility and make their house safer and then stay there to defend it.
Posted by Banjo, Thursday, 6 September 2007 11:07:38 PM
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For a start, have a look at trends in losses of human life and assets since 1900.
Posted by JMD, Friday, 7 September 2007 1:25:14 PM
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JMD,
You may well be right about reduced losses of human life from bushfire since 1900, even though we lost 76 on Ash Wednesday. Stats alone do not give accurate picture of happenings. For example a relatively small fire that engulfs a holiday camp resulting in loss of life could give a false impression that the year was particularly bad for bushfires. If Ash Wednesday had occurred at the weekend the death toll could well have been in the hundreds.

The only way I know of measuring assetts is by valuation and I would seriously question the accuracy of any stats that showed any reduction in assetts lost since 1900.

Some people suggest that there are cycles. i.e. Really major catasrophies occur every 44 years and lessor incidents occur more frequently and so on. However unusual incidents as mentioned above can blow those theories away also.

The role of town planning was not mentioned by the author and frankly I think town planners have much to answer for, as there are many urban and rural developments that are truely abismal from a fire fighting point of view. Why would any planner approve the siting of an urban area adjacent to a large pine plantation to the west. This was Canberra and is incomprehensible to me.

But overall, I agree with the author that changed land management and usage is a big challenge to minimising bushfire losses.
Posted by Banjo, Sunday, 9 September 2007 10:13:13 AM
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I am not familiar with the Greek government or its policies so cannot comment apart from the fact that I heard one of the officials saying that they now have eucalyptus trees from Australia and these contributed to the problem. However again I don't know whether he was referring to a specific place or to the overall area. In any case the increasing burning over the years has left us with a legacy which we are not managing at all well, and this is happening world wide, it seems. Research into the overall pattern is being stymied for political reasons. The burning over 40000 years is a deep legacy, difficult to break away from.
I bought a 45 acre property 25 years ago. At that time it was relatively free from undergrowth and seldom experienced fire. Now the rules have changed, and in my area we are not allowed to clear any of this undergrowth. 'Environmental protection', it was stated by the inexperienced, youthful, powerfully knowledgable 'expert'. Hmphhh! I am increasingly besieged every year by the fear of another fire, now an annual or biannual event, where once it was only an event that occurred every twenty years, then every ten years, and so on. The steps I took to clear at least a five acre area around my house were frowned on by the department and I narrowly avoided a fine, yet even so I came very close to losing my house last year from the last fire. The horror of the Canberra fires is still with me, and I empathise with the Greek people.
Posted by arcticdog, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 8:41:34 AM
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arcticdog,
I feel for you. Here you are trying to make your home safe from fire and some bureaucrat is trying to twart your efforts. They should be trying to encourage you, and yes the 'enviromental concerns' sounds famillar.

You sound as though you wont be beaten, so a few things came to mind that you may consider. Have a close look at the cited legislation and regulations as there may be some aspects like access or fence line clearing that you could exploit.

Don't allow regrowth to take over the 5 acres you have already cleared. If long grass there is a problem and you don't run any livestock, see if a neighbouring stock owner will put some stock on. Horse owners are often looking for extra grazing and may even supply electric fencing to concentrate the horse/s where you want it eaten down most.

If there is scrub/bush, goats are good browsers and it may be interesting to see if goats like the scrub you have. Again offer free agistment to someone but you need good fencing.

If you have a good water supply, or can obtain such, think about keeping a green area near the house and maybe some sprinklers to protect the house. Power often fails during fires, so a petrol driven pump or generator may be needed. Gravity presure is the best if possible.

I encourage people to make their home as safe as possible and stay there to protect it during fires. I hope the above will give you food for thought. Good luck.
Posted by Banjo, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 12:17:26 PM
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Thank you Banjo. I have looked at a way to exploit the rules but they are tightening so much that one even requires a permit to clear enough brush to put in fencing. And water is a problem. We can no longer put in dams, spears, wells, or indeed anything of that nature. Collection of water is limited by the size of the roofs. Agistment is not an option as there is not the water to support it. The dairies which abounded have shut up shop because of the deregulation, so their properties are being used to agist. I keep the 5 acres clear with mowing but have been thinking of electric-fencing the outer parts to put on a couple of animals and have planted a few trees that are less prone to attack by fire than the ubiquitous gum trees but they are well away from the house. I have invested in some sprinkler hoses to run up on the roof during the next fire and have a fire-fighter pump to bring in to action when the electricity goes. All in hand, I think. But my question is: following the Canberra fires, which I saw, why has not the legislation altered sufficiently to allow people to take adequate steps to protect themselves? How many more fires do we have to endure? How many more lives need to be sacrificed to appease the gods of 'environment protection'? Why has money for research been cut off? Especially now the government is telling us of its huge surplus, which appears to be pouring into untested and questionable activities such as advertising for their own re-election? Is it because we are not demanding loudly enough? Not lobbying heavily enough? And judging by the fires in Greece, we are not the only ones to experience these problems. America seems to be beset by fires, as does Spain and Portugal. A world-wide phenomena? What is the lesson to be taken from this?
Posted by arcticdog, Wednesday, 12 September 2007 8:39:43 AM
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arcticdog,
Jeez mate these sods are really making it hard for you. What state and LG area are you in? The vegetation clearing thing is to do with greenie influence and no practical knowledge.

I find it incredulous that they won't allow ANY ground water facility and also have restrictions on the size of rainwater tanks you can have. Is this ONLY because of the current drought or is it a general thing. I can understand getting a permit for a bore, but not to allow any is way over the top. Domestic use is usually allowed for.

In this case it has to be changed politically and if you can garner support from others it would help a lot. The coronial report into the Canberra fires is on line and that may help. Its a hard road but changes don't come easy or quickly.

The CSIRO were doing research in bushfire matters but it is possible that their funding has been cut. I haven't kept up on this aspect. This is a Federal matter and first approach is to your Federal MP.
You are right we should be learning from fire experiances both here and overseas, but we seem too lazy or dumb to do this, so people continue to lose homes. Makes me angry,especially when firefighters put their lives on the line.

If it is at all possible to get a permit for a bore, get one and see if you can get enough water to keep an area green near the house. If you can't get animals on free agistment you may have to buy some.

I think a pony enclosed with a single strand electric tape would keep the grass well down on your 5 acres and save you mowing. Use pasture harrows (not on a bad fire day) to scatter the manure or use on vege garden. If the pony is not in heavy work you need not shoe him, just an occasional hoof trim. Give him vege scraps and a slice of bread and you will have no trouble catching him.
Posted by Banjo, Wednesday, 12 September 2007 12:07:50 PM
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Hi again Banjo. I found it incredible too, but there is a moratorium on ALL water, including bore water. (No permits.) The moratorium has been extended several times. No dams of any size, no bores, etc. for any purpose. No taking water from creeks. There is no restriction on tank collection but normal roof sizes can only garner so much. Yes, we are in drought, and have been for many years. There has been a legal challenge mounted but as it is against the government, to be judged (eventually) by government-appointed judges, it is not hopeful. I have looked at the result of the many enquiries that came from the Canberra fires, and while recommendations were made, there is no obligation for them to be enacted, especially by states not affected by those fires. And as a firie, I know how water is difficult to come by these days, and people who had water resources before the restrictions were enacted are very careful about their use. Naturally. There is little to be done but wait it out.
Posted by arcticdog, Thursday, 13 September 2007 10:35:45 AM
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arctidog,
What a bugger. I really do feel for you. With summer approaching and the season not looking very promising you can only keep your fingers, and anything else, crossed and hope for a wet summer.

At least metric has given us an easy calculation for rain water collection. Roofs yeild 1 litre of water for each ml of rain, for every sq metre of roof area.

Fingers crossed for you.
Posted by Banjo, Thursday, 13 September 2007 4:04:25 PM
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