Hi Relda...yes that was a bit ambiguous... I don't mean that Clergy should be above the (secular) law at all.. I intended to convey that utlimately the harshest Judge of these people will be our Lord.

The only secular law which the Church is 'above' is any law which seeks to enforce:
a)Idol worship or pagan practices.
b)Denial of Christ and/or faith.

Apart from that, we are called to accept rulers as 'appointed by God'.

The tragedy of child abuse by Clergy is that they of ALL people should know Christ's view of such things. Yet...some still go against what they know is right.
Perhaps this tells us something about their spiritual condition ?

The biblical concept of faith is not a 'once' only decision, but a lifetime of moment by moment repenting and committment in faith.

Somewhere along the track, these people became lost and went astray, or.. they never knew the Lord, but simply saw the position the Church offered as a means to an end to satisfy their own carnal cravings.

The thing which rather irritates me though, is the constant onslaught by secular media against 'The Church' while at the same time condoning the most scandalous behavior among non Christian celebrities. (Paris Hilton-olatry comes to mind) The FM stations CONstantly discharge a disgusting foul stench of immorality in the name of popular youth programming as though it was as natural as breathing. Well..perhaps the day is coming when some of us will start demonstrating outside their offices.(and of course giving them some free publicity :) But still, the point will be made if such things happen.

...annnnnd...here is a classic example of 'secular society'...making it up (on the downward slide to moral oblivion) as they go.. seeking the BIGGG bucks from the LOWWWWW morality.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22352257-5001021,00.html
[ANGRY Catholics have pledged to hold candlelit vigils outside Channel Ten headquarters whenever the steamy new show Californication is on air.
The first vigil was overnight, with more than 30 people praying away their concerns about the louche new dramedy billed as "the filthiest show on television"]

See... 'secular' media/society glories in 'filth' uncritically, and then...'they'.. attack the Church as a bunch of 'filthy' priests.

Notice also...that the 'Fundamentalist' Catholics.. are simply holding a vigil.. no bombs, no threats, no violence.....

BOAZ_David

Got to get your priorities right, eh?

Quote: "The thing which rather irritates me though, is the constant onslaught by secular media against 'The Church' while at the same time condoning the most scandalous behavior among non Christian celebrities. (Paris Hilton-olatry comes to mind)"

David, if the choice is between condemning clergy who sexually abuse children and condemning crass publicity for a no-talent like Paris Hilton, give me Paris anytime.

Your defence of 'The Church' is touching. Your defence of and sympathy for sexual abuse victims remains absolutely zilch.

Suffer the children.

Thanks for your clarification on ambiguity David, but I don’t think Amanda Gearing wished to entertain such ambiguity, “...the continuing confusion between sin and crime must be openly and clearly ended.” Her attack, if I can put it that way, is against a culture quite devious where, “the cruelty and the perversion... is shrouded by the loving, the kindness and the normal..” She also accurately states, “Pedophiles are known to groom not only their victims but also the child’s protectors including parents, teachers, headmasters and senior clergy”. The great difficulty arises where a child must, “..look into the face of evil and become a whistleblower, risking the wrath and ostracism of the congregation, and possibly even their own family”. The Church, therefore, can be as protective and promoting of ‘bad culture’ as any institution or organisation – it’s hypocrisy to suggest otherwise.

Whilst I respect your sincerity and your faith (aspects of which I might even share), I understand faith (or belief) as entirely different from, by definition, knowledge. Faith, as an internal condition and can certainly be prompting of outward action. There are two guiding principles(amongst others), however, in the separation of Church and State, i.e. not to promote religion above secularism and not promote secularism above religion. In other words, the Church can influence the values of a secular society and may indeed, in the name of free speech, directly critisise the ‘corrupted’ values of society –but to enforce her values is not in her arena.

A secular publication, incidentally, recognises the morality (or lack there of) residing within the confines of the air-headed Paris Hilton, “When it comes to selfish, self-centred, over-privileged wastes of oxygen, Paris Hilton comes at the very top of the list. Contributing absolutely nothing useful or meaningful to the planet, this pitiful, spoilt celebrity airhead tries desperately hard to look sexy but instead just comes over as stupid. And deeply unpleasant.” (Urban 75 Mag.):)

BD, as usual you miss the point completely!

Paris Hilton is a bimbo, making money out of being a bimbo.
She does not pontifate her morality to anyone and is accountable
to nobody, if she doesent break the law.

The devoutly religous pontifate their morality and their
little moral lines in the sand to everyone, suggesting that
the law should be changed to suit their moral agenda.

At that point they are accountable to everyone and under
intense scrutiny, or face the open charge of hypocracy.

People in glass houses, should not throw stones.

Boaz, Boaz, you have dug yourself a really big hole this time, haven't you.

I'm afraid they aren't on YouTube, so you will be asked to read words rather than watch lurid pictures, but do take a look at these.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/pastor-had-sex-with-daughters/2007/08/30/1188067266454.html

http://www.eux.tv/article.aspx?articleId=13702

And that's just the last couple of days. Admit it, there is a problem.

Your response is, I know, just a knee-jerk reaction in defense of your religion, but you are defending the indefensible, aren't you?

>>I don't mean that Clergy should be above the (secular) law at all.. I intended to convey that utlimately the harshest Judge of these people will be our Lord.<<

Isn't that just the teensiest bit convenient? Especially as his biggest claim to fame, apparently, is his ability to forgive us our trespasses?

>>The thing which rather irritates me though, is the constant onslaught by secular media against 'The Church'...<<

Yet another attempt to deflect the charges. You're definitely in denial, aren't you? The media - in this instance, at least - is simply pointing out the added piquancy of hypocrisy that adds another layer of newsworthiness an an already heinous and unforgivable - yes, unforgivable - crime.

Take a close look at yourself. Right now, it is not a particularly pretty sight.