Bernie. Give us a break. Wilma, Mick, most "stolen" Aborigines, all British child migrants and other hard-done by post-war babies need to get things into perspective.

I was born the same year as Wilma. I had an alcoholic grandmother, an insane mother, abusive step-father and lower working class childhood when times were economically tough. I was belted at home, I was belted by the Christian Brothers, I was abused psychologically and physically and generally treated as a lump that needed to be belted and forced into being a good citizen who understood their place in society.

Life was damn tough for all those people. But it was tough for all lower working-class people from that era. I've never met anyone from that background that has anything positive to say about the times - or their upbringing. My earliest memories include screaming women as bailiffs threw their furniture and belongings onto the footpath because they'd missed their rent a second week and screaming wives and kids when Dad came home pissed and proceeded to belt them all. Life, as per Hobbes, was nasty, brutish and often short.

I have nightmares too. But I've gone on to fight my way up to a career, family and life without needing the Church, nuns, Brothers, government or public to prop me up or give me cash to compensate me for my hard start.

Give me a break. How much has Wilma ever done to help herself before asking me to feel sorry for her. Anyone pregnant at 17 in those days knew what would happen. Anyone who ran afoul of the police or welfare or just about anybody knew what happened. Wilma's not the only kid beaten up by coppers.

Just give me a break. Or don't. I'll make my own breaks just like I've always done thanks without asking for anyone's pity.

Kevin

Give us a break yourself mate.

We can do without self-righteous moralising - look at me, I made it so what's everyone else bleating about. Not everyone is a 'good' as you think you are.

Maybe you made it in your own terms, Kevin, but your lack of compassion and understanding suggests to me there are important ways in which you still haven't made it.

FRank..... your response to Kevins story amazed me... how insensitive and repugnant...

Kevin and I don't agree much, but for goodness sake.. he has exposed his jolly heart here and you trampled on it and spat on it..shame.

Kevin.. at least now I am gaining an inkling of why your usual thoughts about Religion are so negative...how could anyone have a positive image about it with such an experience of life.

I encourage you mate.. to go one step further, just as you were able to separate yourself from the entanglement of your past and make a life, try also to separate the truth about Christ from the abuse of those claiming to act in His name. You will surely find that He is everything those people were not... but should have been.

WILMA..... I read the story, and while things were very harsh yes.... 2 things stand out in her story.

1/ When she escaped..where the heck did she plan to go ?
2/ She was not willing to make the most of the situation, she simply rebelled.. with no other options available.
I mean..if you are going to rebell.. at least have an objective, a plan, but she seems to have rebelled simply for the sake of "I don't like this" and as the story unfolds, things got worse for her because of that rebellion.

I didn't see much in the story of harsh treatment which was not related to some rebellion by her...

Did I miss it ?

Bernie has written this story from the perpective of his own experience of incarceeration.. that stands out like dogs privates.

BD, for the most part, I have to agree with you. FrankGol's attack was completely unjustified, and serves only to show him as LESS compassionate.

Wilma's actions do seem thoughtless, but I guess they are the actions of a girl, one that doesnt necessarily have the mental skills to reason things through. Perhaps it has been those with greater reasoning ability that have been the ones to succeed despite the odds.

Life can be pretty hard, no matter what generation you were born into. My dad was the generation prior to this one, and he did it pretty tough. My grandmother was orphaned in 1916 (at about 9yo) and had a pretty hard life. My mother was abandoned in a Victorian boarding school while her parents moved to Cairns with her younger sister (mum was just 7 when left behind). I consider myself to be very lucky in comparison to the older generations of my family. Life IS better now, at least for most.

I must agree with Kevin, I was wondering if Graham Young had bought a job lot of Bernie Matthews yarns cheap in a garage sale (shame he could not find a bunch of Andrew Bolt ones whilst he was at it).

I started to read one of Bernie’s diatribes and all he is describing is the simple fact, not all people have the same starting opportunities in life.

The real world is not a “level playing field”.

My childhood was more fortunate than many but my parents were, by no means materially wealthy or able to give me or my siblings all that they would have wished for us.

That said, life is a game. However, it is not the hand we are dealt which matters but how we play it out that counts.

“How we play” is determined by whether we decide to view ourselves as victims as well as the decisions we make our ethics and the calculated risks we are prepared to take.

Do we expect others to make exceptions for us because of our childhood disadvantages, colour of our skin, size of the plum stone in our mouth or do we determine that what we expect is dependent upon our own sense of dignity and belief in who we are and more importantly, what we can aspire to be?

I never accept abuse by officials acting, supposedly, with public authority but we have seen it all before. The real failing does not come from the corrupt officials but from those who had a duty of oversight and could (but failed to) intervene when challenged with evidence of abuse, the bishops and senior managers of the institutions and public bureaucrats who simply took the money and washed their hands of their public responsibility.

That said, regardless of the hurt, we should do two things, improve the system of accountability to make abuses impossible and move on!

As Kevin said “I'll make my own breaks just like I've always done thanks without asking for anyone's pity.”

I believe I try to do the same, good on ya Kevin!

Good afternoon to you,*KEVIN and **COL ROUGE...

I agree with both of you with respect to Bernie's piece. Wilma's account of her early life as described by Bernie is very sad, to say the least.

Bernie does possess that rare capacity to engender discussion on issues that have directly affected his life, in toto. Further, I believe that Bernie's own lamentable cirumstances, have surely endowed him most admirable, to provide splendid commentary, on such specific issues, as those that have regrettably impacted on Wilma earlier life.

However, KEVIN'S circumstances are not dissimilar to those that so negatively impacted upon my Father's earlier life too. Came up through the Great Depression, and then there was WW 2 et al.

I suppose what I most admire about my dear Dad, KEVIN, and many many others, was the mere fact that these QUALITY men and women used their inordinately tough up-bringing, in order to form their own strong character traits, that have stood them in good circumstances today.

KEVIN, I 'dips me lid to you my friend'. Absolutely ! And COL ROUGE, as I said earlier, I totally agree with your sentiments on this one.

Cheers...sungwu.

I can’t believe how anybody can turn this on Wilma and be so mean. She was just a child she should have been exposed to care – not abuse.

That there are people out there who believe that she should have accepted her fate and made the most of her situation is hard to believe.

That people can so easily ignore and/or forgive the actions or lack of action by the states including their failing in their duty of care is unbelievable.

That the system did not have a process to protect the children is no surprise, it still happens today.

My heart goes out to Wilma. She deserved better.

Education – Keeping them Honest
http://jolandachallita.typepad.com/education/
Our Children deserve better

I tackle Kevin for telling Wilma that she was weak for feeling that her life has been tough. I thought Kevin was being self-righteous, that he lacked compassion and understanding.

Out rush the compassionate storm trropers to attack the defender - or was that to defend the attacker?

BOAZ_David was amazed at how how 'insensitive and repugnant' my sentiments were. I trampled and spat on Kevin's heart, he laments (but Kevin didn't trample on Wilma's heart?). Then BOAZ proceeded to give patronising advice not only to Kevin but also to Wilma. Sensitive soul our BOAZ.

Country Gal agrees with BD - "FrankGol's attack was completely unjustified, and serves only to show him as LESS compassionate." (LESS compassionate than Kevin?)

Compassionate Country Girl thought Wilma brought it all on herself by being 'thoughtless', but she couls see "they are the actions of a girl, one that doesnt necessarily have the mental skills to reason things through." Well, all country girls are like that aren't they?

There seems to be a lot of that problem of reasoning on OLO. Not to mention good old fashioned hypocrisy.

What a bunch of sick miscreants!
Do you lot actually get off on making excuses to protect the powerful institutions in our society while deriding their victims.

I especially love the moronic statement "Anyone who ran afoul of the police or welfare or just about anybody knew what happened. Wilma's not the only kid beaten up by coppers."

Well lets get right back to those days buddy, and you send me your address, and I'll come around and let you really know how I felt to be a five year old who ran foul of the scum of the earth in child welfare. And lets see if you accept my retribution without running off to the cops and demanding justice-

I don't think I need to go looking at all of you miscreant posts to find you lot screaming from the rooftops about punishing criminals and getting tough on crime. But clearly govt and church official rooting children, ruining their lives while selling to the public their access to vulnerabe children as in societies interests and as good works was not a crime hey!

Talk about masturbating in public- you tossers are unreal.

And that Boaz David- my bleeding heart goes out to you and your finding some human attachment with Kevin’s hurt feelings. I think your meds are working too well buddy.

I have got the measure of most of you- probably all retired public officials from the courts or corrections or DOCS who have got fat, lazy and stupid on the wages you received administering these abused kids as they invariably went wrong and ended making up almost half of the crims you no doubt bleet on about in other posts that would shame you efforts here.

As you are all no doubt highly religious- may god have mercy on your corrupted souls! You sad sick units.

As Col Rouge himself- probably the most eloquent of all the miscreants said-

The real failing does not come from the corrupt officials but from those who had a duty of oversight and could (but failed to) intervene when challenged with evidence of abuse, the bishops and senior managers of the institutions and public bureaucrats who simply took the money and washed their hands of their public responsibility. - end quote.

Got your measure very well Mr. Rouge. Corrupt officials are not the problem- somehow it was the lazy stupid ones that were meant to tame the excesses of the corrupt one is what the problem was.

And to the victims of both groups of scum officials- Mr. Rouge’s advice is get over it!

Fair cop guv!

The victims don’t deserve a cent of that tax payers money, but corrupt officials can keep their pensions.

I fully understand your possition.

Well done to you Kevin; that is sincere. It is damn good that though you haven't forgotten, you have coped admirably.

That does not mean that everyone is able to. It doesn't.

That was pointed out, and away we go! YOU can be pretty cutting about Wilma, but tut,tut,tut! FrankGol mustn't say anything unkind to you!

I think Hirez' approach was just what was needed!!

Let these stories be told. Some were destroyed; and I hope the b.stards responsible rot in hell. Especially those protected by the Church.....

Well well well, hasn't this article brought out some lime lighters?Are you missing the point here or are you just jealous that it not your story that Bernie took the time to tell?

Yes Wilma was a victim of the times as many others were, and I'm glad that Bernie wrote about Wilma's experience, if for anything to highlight the actions of what these kids experienced through our State systems. So many people are naive to what goes on in the State system, past and present.

Wilma is not speaking out as a "poor me" victim, she is just telling her story.
I wonder how many of you who posted these comments know the Wilma of today? Because I think you'd all be in for a huge surprise.

I met Wilma when I was 10 years old and she has been like a mother figure to me for 27 years. And it was thanks to Wilma that my life didn't run aground.The morals and ethics of this woman are commendable, her personality is warm and approachable. Yes this is the story of her teen hood but not the story of the person she became.

I believe some of you need to wake up and have a real good look at yourselves, your comments are based around your own experiences. The article was put out for you to read not attack Wilma over.

Wilma, stay as beautiful as you are!

WIIMA, I CAN FEEL YOUR PAIN I TOO I AM A VICTIM OF THE RAPES AND ABUSE WE OCCURRED UNDER THE HANDS OF THE GOVERMENT THE STATE OF NEW SOUTH WALES ,THIS HAPPEN TO ME AT DARUK BOYS HOME AS WERE MY INOCCENCE WERE STOLEN FROM ME BY TWO [2] PEDOPHILES ,IN 1977 AND 1978, AND I AM A BOY , NOW A MAN TRYING TO SEEK JUSTICE NOT ONLY FOR MYSELF BUT FOR THAT OF THE FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS , THESE ARE GIRLS AND BOYS HOMES ,ORPHANAGES ,AND REMAND CENTRES , ITS ABOUT TIME THE GOVERMENT STOP THE COVER UP EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE DONE ALL THESE INQUIORIES ,YET THEY ARE NOT ALLOWING US VICTIMS TO HAVE JUSTICE IN THE COURTS ,AS THEY TOO ARE PROTECTING ,THE GOVERMENT , OF WHOME HAD THESE PEDOPHILES WORKING FOR THEIR STATES , IM MICHEAL BROWN AND IM A REAL VICTIM AS IS WILMA , HAVE THE NERVRE YOU POLITICIANS TO SPEAK OUT ABOUT THIS AS THEY CAN NOT SACK YOU FOR TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT US VICTIMS SUFFERED KIND REGARDS,

I totally agree with FrankGol: Congrats to you Kevin! You don’t sound bitter at all (hmm) because you survived in the way you knew how, does not mean every individual should behave the same way. And where does it state Wilma is asking for a ‘hand-out’ (government or public to prop me up or give me cash to compensate me for my hard start)
Hirez, Do you know Col Rouge? I think you hit the nail on the head 
As for BOAZ_David, “When she escaped, where the heck did she plan to go?” How about: as far away as possible, from the scum that inflicted this on her. Would you like to hang around and cop this treatment? As I read it, I believe she was put into “care” because her mother had cancer, not because she was a ‘bad girl’ She believed they were going to care for her (as would you and I), not abuse her. Or maybe she thought all homes were not like this and if she escaped someone would show her some kindness? She has told her story for us to read, I don’t believe she deserves criticism.
It sickens me to know there is scum out there that protect the evils of society. I hope they rot in hell.

Ginx, there is a small but important difference between Kevin's comments re Wilma, and FrankGol's comments re Kevin. Kevin was seeking to make general comment, and referenced this to a person who is probably not going to be reading these posts (but she is free to speak up if she is). FrankGol directly attacked another poster, who by his own admission, suffered a similar fate. That is what I think is lacking in compassion.

Wilma may have done well for herself despite this abuse. I hope she has. But that is not the tone that is portrayed in the article. Perhaps though, it should be Bernie Matthews who we should be saving the slightly scathing comments for, not the people whose stories he tells. If he isnt telling the full story (which really goes far beyond any childhood abuse), then he is misleading and not giving these people the credit that they deserve.

Hi to you all...

Well, what can I possibly say ?

As a retired member of 'the establishment' (coppers), I/we occasionally heard these rumours of the gross injustices, and serious crimes that were perpetrated against the most vulnerable of ALL human beings, our children !

By simply saying, there's nothing we can do about it ? If there's no official complaint, then there can be no investigation ! What a terrible misfeasance, by omission !?

Since the burgeoning incidences of paedophilia have become more apparent in this country, and the seemingly extraordinary lengths taken by the hierarchy, of both church and state in order to conceal these VILE crimes.

I can only wonder, how ANY MALE can look one of these hapless victims, straight in the eye, and attempt to mitigate or diminish the absolute atrociousness of this abominable crime, that we've apparently allowed to continue, unchecked. ?

On my own behalf I can only apologise absolutely, to ALL victims and hope that in the future, the law significantly strengthens the penalties for any crimes perpetrated against our precious young.

And to those pious and virtuous 'larva' who knowingly shield these 'rock spider' monsters, apply exactly the same heavy penalty as if they themselves, committed the offence.

As I said, I feel so very ashamed that we as a community have allowed these reprehensible crimes to essentially go unpunished, by looking the other way. God help us !

o sung wu

Thank you for your very compassionate and generous response. Why do some people get it straight away and others feel the need still to blame the victims?

I wish there were more compassion and empathy, especially in official circles. Governments are still making it hard for victims to heal and for redress to be made.

I once belonged to (helped set up) an organisation called LOSS - Lives of State Shame. The name was consciously chosen to imply that the children bore no shame. That shame belonged entirely to the agencies that were meant to look after us and provide protection and nurturing.

The mantle has now fallen to a group called CLAN - Care Leavers Network of Australia. They have about 500 members around Australia who are trying to make sense of their childhood experiences of abuse and neglect in institutions.

CLAN needs all the support they can get to support their members in the face of government denial and stonewalling.

www.clan.org.au or 1800 008 774.

"Ginx, there is a small but important difference between Kevin's comments re Wilma, and FrankGol's comments re Kevin. Kevin was seeking to make general comment, and referenced this to a person who is probably not going to be reading these posts (but she is free to speak up if she is). FrankGol directly attacked another poster, who by his own admission, suffered a similar fate. That is what I think is lacking in compassion." (Quote:Country Gal)

Thanks for the response CG.

I have to disagree though. I will always admire people like Kevin, there are a good few like him; but not all.
If one has the strength of character to cope,survive,thrive; then that person is a strong and stoic human being.

To that end Kevin is strong; and it sits very uncomfortably with me that he is critical of one who tells another story of a vulnerable and not so strong human being;-and of that human being herself. I will not judge Bernie or Wilma. It churns my guts at what children;-ALL children have had to suffer in so many many, cases. What is even worse than this, is that those who perpetrate this;- even in Kevin's case; get away with it; and frequently these scum are 'pillars of the community'.

I'll lay odds that Wilma may well read this, but that isn't the point. Just because she is 'not here', and Kevin is; does not make criticism of Kevin an 'attack', but Kevin's comments 'general'!

Fair go. Kevin was critical, because of his own excellent coping skills, and FG. was critical of his criticism!! (Sorry!, but you know what I'm saying.)

I think Kevin will understand, even if he doesn't agree.

o sung wu,
I fully agree with your comments. Sadly, authorities always fail the victim. This is because authorities are a compilation of self-interest bureaucrats who resist integrity at all cost. In this case at the cost of children. We witness this abhorrent culture on a daily basis in just about every authority there is.
Then there is the other side. Had many children not been removed (not stolen, it was the family environment that was stolen by many unfit parents) they would have suffered the same fate as many of those who didn't get removed, they perished under dreadful circumstances. Just give it another 20 years & the catch cry will be; "why didn't the government take us away from our unfit parents". The disgusting sexual abuse of children has sadly been going on since day 1 and, sadly will continue. All we can do is to make sexual child abuse a far more severe crime with severe sentencing. Unfortunately, many paedophiles enter a profession in authority which almost automatically assures them protection.

Bernie I commend you on your continual endeaver to bring to light the cruel, sadistic and EVIL child abuse that took place at the hands of Child welfare and goverments, past and present.

The crap that has been posted about "Wilmas Story" shows there is anger, mis-understanding, and little compassion among some of the readers towards a young child being mentally, physically and sexually abused at the hands of adults appointed to her care and safety. I believe the point of Wilmas story has been lost on these readers. Instead of projecting your anger, or own trauma onto wilma and her story why not direct it where it really belongs, DOCS and the government.

Child Welfare still has power, but dispite there failings in the past, and the brave victims now telling there stories, children are still are getting abused in this system. If we all worked together we could have the power also. The power to stop the abuse of children within the system.

If you read Bernies series of articles on institutional abuse, namely
"Getting SCREWED at the School of crime", "Mick's Story", "Marleen's Story", "Wilma's Story" and "From the cradle to the grave" by John Murray, you will agree that it was a outrageous criminal attack on our children. It is Australias disgrace that these crimes were committed on children.

I personally have lived through institional care as a child including being incarcerated at Hay Gaol twic, and have lived silently with my horrors all my life, untill the Senate Inquiry into the "Forgotten Australians" enabled me to speak my truth for the first time, up untill then i had suppressed my trauma by what is called disassociation. A survival mechanism.

David wanted to know why Wilma wasnt willing to make the best of the situation........ Unless you have been in this situation you will never comprehend the pain and suffering endured at the hands of others.

Rattles

O Sung Wu stated:

And to those pious and virtuous 'larva' who knowingly shield these 'rock spider' monsters, apply exactly the same heavy penalty as if they themselves, committed the offence. - end quote.

Absolutely correct O Sung Wu!

I was horrified when, in response the emergence of elder abuse in nursing homes in recent years, the aged care industry- govt regulators and NGO sector went rushing down the mandatory reporting path.

Instead of making an example of the perpetrator and the person who covered up the sexual assault of a senile late eighties female inmate in an aged care home, the government and the press spent weeks running that old whore fraudsters trick- the ‘madatory reporting’scam.

They were happy to do this because they know that mandatory reporting doesn’t work, flooding the system with spurious reports, often malicious reports, and in the end crashing the system so- you guessed it, the actual abusers can keep getting away with giving it to a vulnerable person (elderly- child or otherwise).

Somehow, the person who witnessed the rapes got away with their cover-up of assault by saying they didn’t know they had to report it!

And the system, which regularly prosecutes the victims of these people stating that “ignorance of the law is no defense”, didn’t proceed with laying accessory charges, or conceal crime charges, or a raft of other legal remedies available- they set up committees, generated reports, and analysis, and rafts of policy and all sorts of crap, just so they could allow similar abusers to keep getting away with f@cking the vulnerable.

And guess what, the very same agencies that got away with this charade in relation to the sexual assault of children in their care, did the same with the elderly! Anglicare, salvos, centrecare and all of those other agencies just keep getting away with this stuff!

I can only ask whether- because these organisation pay so little to their staff, unfettered sexual/ disciplinary access to vulnerable populations for the purpose of self gratification is a nontaxable non financial perk of the job!

Certainly seems that way.

Hirez. Everything is blamed on lack of funding. This is despite the fact that is our Governments who fund it!

Some people do not understand that the process and administration adopted by the Government means that they can justify anything and cover up child neglect and abuse and just blame funding.

From what I have been told the Government cannot be held accountable for the neglect of children. Only the parent can be seen to be neglectful.....

It isn't just our Government who is failing the children, it is the people. As adults we should protect the children. To do otherwise would be failing in our duty of care.

Too many adults protect abusers.

Rattles, one of the issues with this I think is a lack of knowledge that some of these places even existed, let alone what happened inside them. Eg I grew up in Hay and these articles are the first I've heard of such an institution there (although granted I wasnt around in the 60's).

After reading Kathryn's story about abuse at the hands of her father, I think she has very eloquently summed up the thoughts of other posters on this thread about victimhood and surivival. I dont think there are many people out there who would deny the horror and impact this treatment would have on a child. Kevin's opinion (I think) was more along the line of Kathryn's arguments in that whilst it was horrific, neither of them were going to let that experience forever take centre stage in their lives. Maybe the question should be how have these people got to the point where they are able to mentally file the experience and not let it impede their lives, and how can we project that capability onto others to help them do the same.

Lets please not forget something Countrygirl. The abuse that Wilma suffered was at the hands of the State whilst she was a ward of the State. What happened to those other victims that you refer to was abuse and neglect by their parent/s.

There is a huge difference.

Jolanda

The governments have the money, look at the money that is starting to go out for campaigning for the elections now. Its disgusting.

You are right. So many parents do protect the abusers, its called fear and the power that the perpetrator has over the victims.

When we were locked up we were in "care" of the State that meant they were our "carers" doing what some parents were supposed to be doing.

The ones that went threw the Children's courts were charged with Exposed to Moral danger and Uncontrollable

Then we were in more moral danger at the hands of our "carers".
So where does the responsibility lie. I say the Child Welfare system and all governments.

I think there should be a Royal Commission.

That way it can help people that have been abused while in institutions know that there lost child hood has not been completely ignored and acknowledged.
and it could also make a difference for the Children of to day.



Rattles

What scares me is that the attitude displayed in here towards Wilma and her story depicts the general apathy in society towards people and the past in general.

Is it any wonder that Australia as a nation has a fantastic knack of being able to sweep the unpleasant under a rug and present the 'pretty picture' of our history.

The Aussie 'my dog is blacker than your dog' attitude helps noone and hinders many.

The scary thing is also that this is not the past, but the present.

Some people may be able to deal with life's hurdles better than others and some may feel the need to tear others down or apart because it is the only way they can feel 'good' about themselves.. neither action maketh the man.

Where has compassion gone?

and what about understanding?

without those two things where is hope?

You cannot change the future unless you acknowledge and rectify the past.

Wether people knew this was happening or not makes no difference and it is through people with the strength and courage like Bernie and Wilma that will see to it that people know.

Knowledge is power and power and knowledge are desperatley needed in this society.

So thank you both Bernie and Wilma.

Hirez ”Got your measure very well Mr. Rouge.”

If you were not a moron, you would have been able to see one pace beyond the end of your nose.

Example (applies to all organisation); when I read about church cover-ups of pedophile priest, the bishops who, for the good name of their church, hide the perverts away from public scrutiny and pretend “all is well”, then that is the sort of thing I am talking about.

If the apologists of all these institutions were to stand up and expose their corrupt co-workers, subordinates and supervisors, corrupt practices would disappear. Covering it up merely moves it in a dark place to fester and grow, unobserved.

So regarding “Corrupt officials are not the problem- somehow it was the lazy stupid ones that were meant to tame the excesses of the corrupt one is what the problem was”

I note, you include no structural suggestions to how to overcome the problem, merely small-minded footstamps.

Only someone with a mind and experience of organisational structures and responsibility so small as to be negligible would interpret my observation your way.

Corrupt officials do not exist in a vacuum. They exist within an organization, working alongside, for and with other officials.

When I have found people who work for be behaving corruptly, I have terminated their employment instantly. Better "corruption" be dealt with and the corrupt removed than left to spread and infect further.

I merely expect the same standard of ethics in others as I apply to myself and endeavour to exercise through my own conduct.

I suggest you get some experience of how real “organizations” work, before you bother to criticize my posts.

Fruitfly – “Hirez, Do you know Col Rouge? I think you hit the nail on the head”

Like you, he does not; and like you he is simply “firing from the hip” - probably because the lacks the basic skills to think properly.

O sung wu – thank you for your support, we have, obviously, interpreted and react to our own responsibilities in real life in similar ways.

Hi to all of you.

Having carefully read all your various contributions in relation to this most horrid, of all serious crimes. I reckon we're all pretty well on the same page. I don't suppose any of us would provide succour or attempt to mitigate in any way whatsoever, the inhuman conduct perpetrated against our precious young. Or similar crime that has been committed against our defenceless aged folk, either.

I believe the time has now arrived, where all these pretentious barriers should be immediately dismantled. The 'excuse' industry, shown the door. All the 'politicking', immediately laid aside. And the Judiciary be DIRECTED to apply the heaviest of penalties (upon conviction) to those who appear before them, on these abhorrent crimes against humanity !

Let there be no more excuses offered. No more abrogation of responsibility, by ANYONE, Church or State. Give police the necessary 'where with all' to reach out and nail these 'festering' miscreants. Make sure the Courts apply the very heaviest of sentences. And turn gaol back into gaol, absolutely !

Even the hardest of crims, will have no truck with any of these vile 'rock spider' types ! None at all! Least of all, the author of the original article, Bernard Thomas MATTHEWS !

The mark of a mature society, is measured by the way we care for our most vulnerable, the young, and for our aged, alike !

Fortunately I have made a good life for myself even though i went through the disgusting childcare system of the 50s and60s.8 different govt homes,4 sets of sexually abusive foster families ,3 trips to Parramatta and 1 to Hay.I have met many women who were shown the door with 16 dollars in hand and told to make a life.Many of them headed straight to their old stamping grounds as they knew no where else to go.Some,like me, have been lucky.Others bogged down in the mire and quite a few are dead.
If i hadnt married at 17 and left Sydney,i may well have ended up like some of my poor friends.

I believe most people want all those atrocities in the open so that hopefully we can stop it happening again.Children deserve better than to be made slaves and sex objects out of.

Some people are stronger than others and have had more support.How can anyone point a finger at the ones who didn't become "normal" citizens when they don't know and didn't share the raising of these individuals.Let those without sin cast the first stone.No i am not religious,just think those great words to live by.haygirl

Bernie Matthews stories about the abuse that institutionalised children were subjected to in NSW in the 1950s and 1960s makes confronting reading. I think its important that these stories of abuse are told so that we can be alert and watch out to make sure that that institutionalised child abuse isn't allowed to flourish today.

I can't imagine a more humiliating introduction to puberty than that foisted upon Wilma. When stories circulated that the privatised womens' prison in Victoria, Fairlie, was rationing of sanitary pads, the state government sacked the private prison operators.

Hi Mr Rouge, if you look at my post of Friday, 24 August 2007 1:47:09 PM you will see that I made some suggestions about how to deal with this problem.

The criminal codes are replete with tools to counter the problems we are discussing (and many more- such as police corruption).

But it seems that our leaders and senior public servants don't want to use the laws against their mates, and allow kangaroo court ‘redress’ processes run in a dark ages closed church scenario!

I find it interesting that ten years after Franka Arena was deposed from the NSW Parliament for saying that the Parliament has paedophiles in it that were being protected, we learn the truth of that.

Since then, numerous ALP figures have done small stints in gaol, we have a senior DPP figure presently housed in her majesties hotels, and a dirt-bag from Wollongong has recently been released after running two underage state wards (under the protection of an ALP Minister!) through his Southern Bells brothel.

And everyone in the establishment (at least in NSW) keeps saying that there is no protection racket!

It is interesting that at least two Aboriginal Affairs ministers have been accused of sexually abusing children- (how many more peds have had this plum post) which probably underscores the whole crisis in sexual abuse in Aboriginal communities that is now only being addressed under a liberal government.

I refer back to your post of 22 August 2007 3:13:08 PM. I don’t understand this ‘move on’ mentality of yours, especially when it deals with children who were so miserably failed. These people deserve the full support of our criminal justice and compensation systems (as well as the community), for if they cannot expect the support of our community and justice systems- who can?

Why have a criminal justice system at all?

I want to thank Wima for having the courage to share her story. Something so personal and painful is not being put on the public forum for Wilma to extrapolate from for her own gain or for self pity, but rather as a snap shot of history - a living history - one which we as a civilised society should take note of - learn from - and endeavour to never recreate, as sadly we have done with the wars continuing across the globe today. These kind of personal wars shouldn't be critiqued competitively as to who had it hardest, what generation suffered most, and what kind of resilience and stoicism needed to be applied to overcome. Rather what we have in Wilma's situation is the state being the guardian and caregiver actively abused her, and dispossessed a human from their spirit and a mother and a child from their bond. Stiff upper lip or not - the cost to our society is immense and immeasurable really I am sure. Continue with this line and there are no winners, even if the abused were to move forward through the annals and obtain and achieve great material success. A link in the genetic chain is broken forever!

Hirez “I don’t understand this ‘move on’ mentality of yours, especially when it deals with children who were so miserably failed. These people deserve the full support of our criminal justice and compensation systems”

We can do one of two things, move on or not.

By not moving on people become victims of their past, ignoring the opportunity to become masters of their destiny.

Everyone deserves the protection of the criminal justice system.

Re “compensation”, monetary compensation?

Sue the criminals and turn them destitute but don’t expect “society” to pay for the shortcomings of those who have failed “society”.

A “compensation” attitude is as bad as a “victim” attitude, it seeks to financially compensate that which cannot be financially compensated for and is doomed to failure.

I cannot speak for those who have abused positions of public trust.

We are always best served by a system which minimises government and centralist governmental power. It keeps accountability more visible with fewer points of separation between the elected, the bureaucrats and the electorate. I would personally be very happy to see more judges and public officials elected, as in the USA.

I would prefer to see greater accountability of all levels of government and public violations, like child foster services being overhauled instead of being run by failed halfwits and sexual predators.

However, all abuses are perpetrated within systems which have oversight processes which are supposed to ensure the corrupt are identified and removed when they start, not when they are entrenched.

Extrapolating the predilections of a couple of one-time labor government minsters to excuse the societal deficiencies of the greater NT aboriginal community is stretching too long a bow. The sooner you understand, individuals are individuals with the ability to behave appropriately or badly, the sooner you will understand what I am talking about and why what I say is the only solution to the problems you are grappling with.

PS maybe this is, as you allude to a labor party problem re “numerous ALP figures have done small stints in gaol” don’t blame me, I always vote Liberal

Just because you seek justice doesn't meant that you do not move on with your life!

Education - Keeping them Honest
http://jolandachallita.typepad.com/education/
Our children deserve better

Maybe i'm not understanding the political side of this discussion but i can't really see that it matters who is in power.When myself and other young children,in the 60s, were being abused in the state homes the Liberals were ruling the country.Questions were being asked then as to the treatment of incarcerated children and if memory serves me correctly,bugger all was done. Who cares who is in charge just as long as the children are being cared for properly.What the hell has politics got to do with this subject.I'm lucky that i've survived relatively unscathed but a lot of people don't have the fortitude or luck of myself.Unless you've walked in our shoes you don't have the right to pass judgement.As for compensation,i don't want any but i do know of people that richly deserve some.The young girls that were sodomised so that they would still pass a virginity examination ,for instance.

Col Rouge

While I agree that sexual abusers and similar filth should be pursued in the courts (although the statute of limitations is a barrier) I disagree that there are only two options: “move on or not”.

Many find it impossible to move on - yet. Many kids left institutions without any education or with only minimal schooling. Many left with medical conditions such as deafness brought on by constant bashings. Many left with deep psychological scars, incapable of making and keeping friends. You can’t just will them to get over it. A childhood can last a lifetime.

It is a distortion to describe people who were raped and abused as “victims of their past”. They were victims of untrained, unsupervised, violent and predatory people employed and supported by the state (or charities or churches). Even when the perpetrators were exposed, they were often just moved on to the next institution to continue their evil. I know of no case before the 1990s where an offender was prosecuted.

The state had a duty of care, was negligent in discharging that duty, and therefore should offer redress.

I agree that not everything can be repaired by financial compensation; but if you are in your sixties and never had an education as a child, why shouldn’t the state (or the responsible charity/church) pay your fees to go to adult classes?

If you have health impairments resulting from childhood neglect or abuse why shouldn’t the responsible agency pay your medical expenses?

If you were isolated and told your siblings were dead why shouldn’t the state pay to let you visit them now that you found them alive?

If you are haunted by memories of being locked in a dark cupboard and allowed out only when you were willing to cooperate with the dirty old man in charge of your life, why shouldn’t the state pay for ongoing counselling?

Re your PS: “…don’t blame me, I always vote Liberal”, I’m prompted to recall that one of the most abusive CEOs of a children’s institution became a parliamentarian - representing the Liberal Party.

How incredibly sad it is when people can turn a brave woman’s story into a chance to attack her.

Thank you to everyone who has recognised Wilma’s story as being about injustice, abuse and mistreatment of our children. No-where in Wilma’s story does she say “poor me”, nor does she belittle anyone else’s story or how they may or may not cope with what is dealt them. She simply tells the historical facts of her life and the abhorrent way in which she was treated by the people who should have cared for her. The adults that were in charge of her life.

I have also known Wilma since my childhood, where her home was often a haven for children whose home life was less than perfect.
None of us, who grew up knowing this amazing woman, knew of the atrocities that she suffered and held inside, until we were adults.

A kinder, gentler and more generous woman you would not meet.

I applaud you Wilma, and hope you stand proud for telling your story, because I am so very, very proud of you.

FrankGol “I disagree …: “move on or not””
You are merely reciting excuses for why people do not.

“it is a distortion to describe people who were raped and abused as “victims of their past”.”

Where is the distortion?

“Even when the perpetrators were exposed, they were often just moved on to the next institution to continue their evil.”

The absence of oversight and supervision is exactly what I have previously identified as the real problem.

“The state had a duty of care”

The individual charitable organisations who took on responsibility had the duty of care.

The “State” as you call it represents tax payers, whose taxes were used to help fund the charities. Tax payers were equally abused by the failure of the charitable organisation to administer responsibilities which they took on and failed to oversee the conduct of their officers.

“If you are haunted by memories - why shouldn’t the state pay for ongoing counselling?”

I have done many things in my life, some of them not the wisest. One of them a friend recommended I seek counselling over.

I sought counselling and it was some of the best money I ever spent.

This is where you and I part views. I believe in doing what needs to be done, regardless of the cost, you seem to be hell bent on making the tax payer responsible for everything.

If it were me who had been abused by some dirty old man I would be hell bent on doing two things

1 seeking all the advise and help I needed to repair the damage to myself, regardless of cost.
2 putting concerted effort into ensuring my abuser was publicly exposed and prosecuted by every means possible

If I wanted to remain a victim and not move on, I would have no need to do either 1 or 2.

Regardless of what you have written to the contrary, you have really agreed with me, there are only two options, move on or not move on. There are only ever those two options

Col although I agree [and applaud] your arguements in some forums, in this instance you are showing your complete lack of knowledge of the damage that institutional child rearing has done to many individuals.

Some individuals will survive no matter what life throws at them but the vast majority will be swamped by their circumstances.

You and I from the comfort of our middle class existences can always rustle up the money for counselling whatever the cost. People who have been institutionalised often have limited education, and if they have been bashed or their teeth have been knocked out or they have been bought up on institutional food they have plain looks. Poor education and ordinary looks equates to lower pay. You never here of these kids undertaking apprenticeships because who would pay the bond?

Chances are these people made poor life choices and are rearing their children in poverty.

A woman of my acquaintance was reared in institutions including ending up in Turana and her 15 year old son is uncontrollable and heading down the same path. She has provided better parenting than she experienced but to be truthful, she had no role models and it's a lot lower standard than you would have provided your girls.

When you are a "client" of social security you have a marginal tax rate of 60% if you earn extra money. Or even nastier, if you declare your additional income and a DSS clerk stuffs up the arithmetic the client has to pay it back. Or as in the case of my friend when she trained for a nursing job she was unable to get rostered on for sufficient shifts to be independent of DSS. Yeah, how can nurses run a house on 5 hour shifts 5 times a fortnight. Social security clients have wait to receive counselling, see the dentist, doctor etc.

The black-and-white assertions from Col Rouge are superficial. And a shaky grasp of the facts leads to a misleading argument.

Read the "Forgotten Australians" Report (Senate August 2004) Col and you will see that the majority of institutionalised children were wards of the state. That is, the states took unto themselves the legal responsibility for care and protection of these children (in many cases against the will of their families).

In many cases the states outsourced the day-to-day responsibility for the 'care' of children to private charities and churches - and paid per capita allowances.

But these payments in no way gave the states the right to absolve themselves of their legal duty of care. Their failure to provide supervision of institutions and to require accountability for what went on in institutions is the nub of the problem. To continue to blame the victims is both insensitive and ignorant. We can't all be as strong as you, Col.

Hundreds of thousands (the Senate Report conservatively calculated 500,000) of children were exposed to danger in institutions. And an unknown proportion of these were victims of predatory 'carers' while the state as their legal guardians made no effort to leran what was going on.

So, the unfortunate taxpayers will have to carry the burden for the negligence and dereliction of duty of the states. Not fair, Col Rouge, but morally and legally right.

I am with you Sis !
I found it really interesting that the people who attacked Wilma didn't attack any of the other two people in recent reports by Bernie Matthews.

I can image why those of the apologist- "I must protect institutions no matter what they are" attitude didn't attack the ex police officer- even though he did receive that dreadful thing - compensation, and even though he admitted he didn't really 'move on' from it all!

That weak scum-bags sooed themselves onto a women who as a girl was raped abused and humiliated by other scum-bags does not surprise me in the least!

As a matter of fact. it totally fits the sociopathology of what occured in the first instance!

Interesting hey

Col Rouge, I have done many things in my life,some of them not the wisest. One of them a friend recommended I seek counselling over.
I sought counselling and it was the best money I ever spent.

I suggest ass head you try sitting in a group work shop with Only people that were locked up with sick ,evil ,animals, as children and listen to there heart wrenching, sick, evil, cruel, sadistic stories inflicted on us as vulnerable children while in "care" of
State and church.
And let the past providers pull out some money to help them.

It very sad powerful to see the barriers start to break after a few days, with people that don't judge, do understand, are not shocked. do believe no matter how graphic. speaking for the first time,
whats festered there for years spews out.

Col. If it was me being abused by some dirty old man, I would be hellbent on doing two things.

The sick thing Col it was young strong men and twisted women also that were within all systems.

1 -Seeking all the advise and help i needed to repair the damage to myself, no matter the cost.

Done that also Col, Chronic Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. pain and suffering"

2- Putting concertrated effort into ensuring my abuser was publicly exposed and prosecuted by every means possible.

Procedures have started Col, Abusers will pay,
Abuse as a State Ward,

Mr Rouge.
It is money well spent by the churches the States also the tax payers money for the Senate Inquiry. The Children and there family's lives that were screwed and very much still are.
Myself and my children have always paid our way and taxes , so there is no guilt trip with me only Justis.

Rattles

Kevin,How many times were you sodomised so that you would still pass the virginity test?How many times were you beaten unconscious?How many times were your bones broken by the person supposed to be caring for you.When you can answer MANY TIMES,then you will understand.I"m very strong and survived ok but a lot of people aren't strong and don't have anyone to help them.When all of your childhood has been abusive and you were given no life skills,it can be extremely hard to function as an adult.A lot of us managed with support from others but unfortunately a few couldn't .I believe those few deserve some sort of compensation.Imagine being locked in a tiny dark cell for weeks on end and fed bread and water twice a day.Your male gaoler coming in and taking his lust out on you.In any way he felt like.Walk a mile in our shoes before you point fingers.By the way i am not asking for compensation.

This is unbelievable!

To those who dont know Wilma..Do not judge or abuse her story!!
Wilma has been affected majorly by her childhood and has affected her through out her life. I would know because she is my nan. She is a very strong, supportin women and should be commended on her ability to be able to speak out about child abuse.

For 15 years my nan has been by my side and my familys every step of the way supporting us in everyway she can. The welfare system was wrong and has affected many lives.
My mum and dad went to hay jail with nan for Hay girls reunion and was shocked at what they seen and heard.

Just because my nan speaks out about her childhood doesnt mean she isnt still affected, and when she does get a chance to speak out she is abused with comments that are disrespectful to her life story.

Anyone that perpetrates any abuse on children physical, psychological or sexual abuse on any child or human being should be prosecuted and pay a penaltie for their crimes.

I have met some of the women that were affected by their chilhood abuse along with my nan and they are very strong but you can see and notice that they have been affected by their childhood.

Teen Oppinion

Well said, kiddo!

Late 1970's to late 1980's I worked as a admin assistant to the management of a regional office of our "child welfare" dept. I finally could not emotionally cope with the investigations into the horrific abuses meted out to the children and adolescents in 'CARE' and broke down distressed. No super, just a disability pension. At age 38. In one institution the consulting/resident's psychiatrist was reported by girls as abusing them... his response? the allegations were untrue, stemming directly from their "condition" which was founded on living in a fantasy world!
What I encountered, as a humble lowpaid stenographer, made me mentally, emotionally and physically sick.
WELFARE IS RULED BY POLITICS AND ECONOMICS AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CARE. JUST A TOKEN BY THE STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS TO "BE SEEN" TO BE DOING SOMETHING TO CARE FOR CHILDREN... MOST OF THE BUDGET IS SPENT ON THE STAFF AND MAINTENANCE OF THE SYSTEM. ONLY A PITTANCE GOES WHERE IT IS MOST NEEDED.

Amber your story confirms what I already know and that is that this whole abuse of process is systemic. The system doesn’t want to investigate these types of allegations, so instead they discredit the child and anybody who speaks out and they set up the process of dealing with matters so as to cover up.

I went in to see our Director General for Education recently in relation to allegations my family have been making of systematic bias, victimisation, bullying, vilification, discrimination, educational neglect, misconduct and fraud against Departmental staff aimed at my children spanning over 7 years . Behaviour that has caused my children and family years of emotional and psychological distress, humiliation, and educational neglect. This type of abuse, whilst it cannot be compared to what has happened to these children in institutional care, is still serious and causes children to become depressed and they live with fear of being publicly humiliated http://www.stopbullyingnow.com/teachers%20who%20bully%20students%20McEvoy.pdf

The DET have a Policy against Bullying and a Code of Conduct and a Policy that says that these types of investigations must be investigated. Despite the fact that the DET knows the damage that bullying and victimisation does, the allegations have not been investigated and these people are still in a position of power and dealing with my children.

The DET does not want to investigate the allegations as it might set a ‘precedent’ and then open up a can of worms.

Recently in a letter from the Director General, wherein he again refused to investigate the allegations, he ended his letter with this:

‘We clearly have a different perspective and as I said in the meeting, I think it is time that everyone moves forward and makes the best decisions in the interests of your children’.

How can covering up and ignoring my children’s complaints of bullying and victimization be in the best interest of my children?” By not addressing these allegations those who are targeting my children are protected and my children are seen as ‘acceptable targets and sacrifices’ of the system.

Our children deserve better
Education - Keeping them Honest
http://jolandachallita.typepad.com/education/

It doesn’t matter if the “victim” is called Wilma or by any other name, is a boy or a girl as no child should have to endure such kind of suffering.
Blaming a child for her conduct is the easy way out. When a woman asked me what she could do to get her child as it was taken from her, not long after birth, when she was doing a nine month term of imprisonment for drugs, albeit she had since married and had a son, and only was allowed to see her child one hour a month, I urged her to simply immediately demand the child to be handed over to her as I held that the Authorities acted unlawful in their conduct. The response of the Authorities was to immediately hand-back the child claiming that she had never formally asked for the child in years gone by. The son, at age five, for the first time saw his sister! It turned out the daughter had lived in a home about 2-kilometre from where her mother lived.
Welfare agencies often are abusing and misusing their powers and the children are suffering. When my 2-year old daughter was formally arrested by the police, by WARRANT, I took the case to the Supreme Court, and had my daughter back. The welfare authorities had claimed they could overrule the Courts. Well, the Supreme Court made clear they couldn’t.
I reported the “welfare authorities” to the Ombudsman and he also upheld my complaint about the filth and improper conditions in which children were kept!
What we need is greater accountability by those who are to care for children, not being their own, and if they are found to act inappropriately then ban them for life! That might drive the message home to them that they are accountable!
We as a society must not blame the children but rather those who abuse and misuse their powers! The kind of indignity in the Wilma story should never be tolerated to be done upon any child!

Billie “in this instance you are showing your complete lack of knowledge of the damage that institutional child rearing has done to many individuals.”

An intimate knowledge of a problem is not necessarily a prerequisite to finding a solution.

However, unless we work to put the wrongs of the past behind us, we will remain cripples and slaves to the perpetrators of those wrongs

FrankGol “Not fair, Col Rouge, but morally and legally right.”

Life is never fair Frank, only the virginally naive and intellectually challenged believe it will ever be so. Life is about dealing with the hand you are dealt and making the best of it for yourself, your family and the people you interact with.

Rattles, So, you know how to spell “ass head”.

Congratulations, hurling your low rhetoric at me must make you feel better, I suggest some “counseling” for you on the topic of how to build self esteem would not go amiss.

As for “Myself and my children have always paid our way and taxes , so there is no guilt trip with me only Justis.”

That is nothing less than your public duty and not deserving of praise. But we do have it in common. I could suggest we build on that but I figure, even with the best will and effort, building will not result in sharing a BBQ any time in the next 500 years so, for expediency, take your spleen venting drivel and crawl back under your stone.

Amber your reference to welfare services, compassion and sense of empathy are human traits which cannot be acquired by the “State” , hence all the socialist bulldust about a “caring society” is garbage and why Margaret Thatcher wrote

“We want a society where people are free to make choices, to make mistakes, to be generous and compassionate. This is what we mean by a moral society; not a society where the state is responsible for everything, and no one is responsible for the state.”

And

“There is no such thing as Society. There are individual men and women, and there are families.”

Oh, I see the light- Col Rouge is just such a very clever man!

I think I have got it all correct now- its not the corrupt peoples fault- it was those who were meant to oversight them, but given that, you can't sue the State, you must sue the corrupt one that the State failed to oversight, the very same people the State protected through its failure then, and continues to protect today.

Its just so simple, I think we should all do what Col says and move on.
I am just not sure if I can emulate the same rapid repetitive hand movements Col seems to enjoy excreting in public!

I dip my lids to the Master Stroker, you are a gem Mr. Rouge.

The more I hear, the more I suspect you work (worked) in corrections!

Perhaps all those bankers and other people harmed by criminals should just move on too hey- then we would have no need for police, judges, corrections.

Its just so bloody simple hey- why didn't I think of it?

Doh!

"Free Speech measures the idiot by what he says "

So guess who made the following statement.
And then try to work out why!
Sure as hell has me stumped.
Probably nothing like a good whinge to get the bowls moving regular:

"I support the right of the individual to make decisions which effect their own body for themselves and live with the consequences of those decisions free of interference by the state or anyone else.

Pro Choice is not Pro Abortion, it is "tolerant of abortion". course tolerance, as a much underrated social virtue is not the sort of thing suited to religious bigotry and those who wish to "socially engineer" what is the free will of others.
For instance, the Church of Rome uses sex as a method of social control for its congregation (whilst simultaneously covering up the sexual perversions of its priests) - by imposing rules forbidding the use of contraceptives as well as damning abortion - anyone see the movie about the Irish girls forced into slavery in laundries run by sadistic Nuns, because they got pregnant - a fine message of love and care and tolerance from the church).
Before any religious zealot is fit to demand anything from this secular society they should be able to hold themselves up as free of fault, blame and corruption - which is impossible to do, since they acquired their authority from fault, blame and corruption."

Time to move on me thinx!

For those who are engaging in the status of we got over why haven't you position perhaps you need to look at what the impact of deep trauma has upon people. Wilma's story is not one of trying to acheive monetary gain it is instead her courageuos journey through deep emotional pain from the trauma she experienced as a child and a young woman. Instead of being critical admire her courage in still being here and how she is trying to progress into a positive stage. instead of positioning yourselves as judge and jury try to comprehend just what she has been through. Some of you may have 'worked' through your similar backgrounds but I tend to think that those who say I got over it haven't trully processed their own grief. Why not take on board some of the true issues such as the facgt that Australia has a history of social control through pinishment and institutionalisation and this is now returning through the social policy of today. Winkle

Hirez “ts just so bloody simple hey- why didn't I think of it?”

Maybe because, if reading the quality of your posts is any guide, the bloody simplest of things are quite beyond your limited comprehension.

“I am just not sure if I can emulate the same rapid repetitive hand movements Col seems to enjoy excreting in public!”

At least you adequately demonstrate how vulgarity becomes you.

Well I see you have taken to quoting me. At least that way, you will provide broader and more considered ideas than with attempts at articulating your own thoughts.

As for “Time to move on me thinx!”

Time indeed, don’t bother to close the door on your way out, the air needs to circulate to get rid of your stale odour.

Winkle “For those who are engaging in the status of we got over why haven't you position perhaps you need to look at what the impact of deep trauma has upon people. “

No one can ever walk in someone else’s shoes.

We could all pretend faux-compassion but honestly, all individuals can really do is accept the unfairness of the world and acknowledge that no one gets a perfect run (not even Paris Hilton).

Hence, all we can do is attempt to not just expose corruption and see it punished but also expose those who seek (for whatever reason) to cover-up the corruption of others.

Hirez seems to have some cognitive difficulty with this latter issue.

It is simple, Corruption can only exist where supervision is, at best, negligent or worse, complicit.

Col Rouge, Tuesday,4 September

Col you are a arrogant masturbating arse-hole!

Rattles

Col Rouge, your following statements are once again nicely jumbled! :

“… all individuals can really do is accept the unfairness of the world and acknowledge that no one gets a perfect run (not even Paris Hilton).

Hence, all we can do is attempt to not just expose corruption and see it punished but also expose those who seek (for whatever reason) to cover-up the corruption of others.”

In the second part of that statement- which differs markedly from the first you are now using my previous argument.

I see then that you are slowly coming around! I applaud it, for it is a great leap forward from the “move on” principle you seem to be indoctrinated with.

Perhaps you are one of these ‘lives of quiet desperation’ people who accept that crap happens and stoically takes it on the chin, and then turns the other cheek!

Very devotional and biblical perhaps, but you shouldn’t deride others who are trying to make system learn the lessons of the past through exposing the massively brutal childhoods people suffered to enrich the coffers of others.

It seems from your posts that you don’t think people should waste their time being altruistic and trying to improve things, and that they should suffer in silence.

I have taken an interest in your views and read numerous posts from you, and am rather confused why you would write so many (almost 1% of all Online Opinion posts in fact) when you clearly think that people shouldn’t try to do anything, but bend-over, take in on the chin and move on.

Your posts are seriously weird yes- but impressive non the less. I would certainly like to harness that effort for improving the child welfare system!

I hope you find something that you are actually passionate about pursuing one day, rather than being just a serial naysayer, devils advocate, point of difference person.

Good luck to you Col.

With the Wilma story it obviously is something that occurred before I came to Australia. Come to think of it so much that was done against Aboriginals was done before I came to Australia. In fact, I had never even heard about Aboriginals before I came to Australia. Likewise so with the usage of Agent Orange used in Vietnam. Still I do care about the people suffering from their horrific experiences, even so I never participated in it. The issue is not if I had a hard luck story myself and had to get over it by myself rather that because I learned it the hard way, I would prefer to show understanding and compassion to others. As such, it is not relevant if people born now are deformed of actions taken before my time and without my involvement in Vietnam, as being a human being I do care about the suffering of others. Likewise so with Aboriginals, being that they are Wilma or under any other name, they do deserve our understanding and compassion and we may then have a better understanding as to how to seek to avoid such horrific incidents!
Because I had to resolve my own problems doesn’t mean that then I can disregard others their struggle. To the contrary, because I have the experiences I would like to see others to be assisted, in particular where they do not have the ability to deal with matters as I may have been able to do.
Any mentality of “I am all right, mate” is rather indicating that this is a lack of human compassion as well as a lack of proper education as to what it is to live in a civilised society.
Today it might be Wilma but who knows tomorrow it could be one of our own who in some way or another is being harmed and/or suffers because of the action of others. Hence, let not wait until tomorrow but lets act now to assist to the best of our ability others in need.

hi bernie just replying to all responses you have on this story , its sad enough to be still living through the nightmares of what happend to us as children whilst we were in the care of the states of austaralia ,i mainly speak of daruk boys home , i was a 13and half year old boy raped by two staff officers in 1977 and 1978 ,, yet we are getting know where as to seeking justice , is it because , our complaints are that real the goverment has to continue the cover ups of the abuses that we occurred ,aye i didn;t ask to be raped molested and to do unforceiable acts for these pedophiles , i was forced by these sick _uckers and its about time that the courts stop the cover up as well , by the way i am a clan member of new south wales , the senate inquires which were done 3 years ago , our goverment of australia is just using all that report for their toilet paper as they have done nothing to help any of these victims or that of myself , i tabled the senate inquires in my court case against the state of new south wales , in the judgement that was given on the 20 september 2007 , the judge said my compliant is plainly real and a tragic part of our history and then dissmissed my case in favour of the crown , i am now appealling that dission and , i have acted for myself in the supreme court telling the judges if they are pedophile protectors they shouldn;t be on the bench , and i told the crown that they are nothing but pedophile protectors , ,now i never got thrown out of court at any stage of my case but they had secuity at the door of the court rooms , i beleave for the purpose that they thought i would take action myself towards the crown , but the crown had the security for his protection ,

Rattles “Col you are a arrogant masturbating arse-hole!”

And if you worked harder, you might actually develop into a half-wit.

As it is, your vocabulary is evidentiary testimony to how far short of such a description you presently fall.

Now I suggest you have some “Dr Zeuss” or maybe “Janet and John” books to catch up with, that is assuming you are not already blinded by your own indulgent, self-abusive practices.

Hirez, so you think I lack passion. I suggest you read my posts to the abortion debates which are scattered among these threads.

That I do not rent my clothing or tear out my hair at any instance of unfair treatment does not mean I do not stand up against unfairness. Accepting the realities of life was taught to me at an early age.

What you fail to appreciate is I have actually identified the environmental causes which allow pedophiles and corruption to flourish (ie absence of character and action from those who should be supervising and monitoring the behaviour of the corrupt). All you have done is whine about how my pragmatism and directness offends your sense outrage.

Unlike you, I do not stop at facile righteous indignation but go the further steps to suggest what might be done to limit and eradicate such problems. That you cannot accept the truth in what I have suggested is not my problem but down to the severe limits which restrict your capabilities.

huffnpuff, have you got a (Website) link to the judgment so I can read why they actually threw out your case?

Col, are you claiming that you never masturbate?

What is so damm funny about this is how many people vote labor.

For those who have had this happen to them i cannot say i know but i can say keep up the fight.

I myself sarted to do research about the labor party after the swansea affair and what i have found is disturbing.

Disturbing to the point where people in government knew and did nothing but thought it a joke.
I would not be suprised if rudd was one who was laughing.

Also the corruption that also follows with covering up for the benefit of the labor party, maybe rudd will spend some sweet time behind bars, but no mr fixit will get away with it.

The labor party who hide peadophiles, hides and denies sexual assualts and physical assualts for what, the people NO for the labor party.

What suprises me also is the education and teachers union who know still back these type of actions by backing the party.

We ourselves would not deal with people like this due to the safety for our children but hey what do they care.

Proof yes, what i say i can show.

Stuart Ulrich
Independent Candidate for Charlton
swulrich@bigpond.net.au

Tapp,As i have previously pointed out,the abuse in the sixties was under lIBERAL govt.Perverts are everywhere,in all walks of life.Who knows their may even be a few who are independants.Don't blame one party for something that has been going on since time began.The issue here is what kids have been and are still going through.This is not the place for you to be making a platform for the next election.We see enough political rubbish on T.V.You'll get no votes here.If you have nothing worthwhile tosay(other than political bias)Go away.

I agree with Tapp. The Labor Government and those who support Labor tend to have an agreement/understanding wherein they will protect the Labor Governments reputation at any cost by either not acting on allegations, attacking the messenger or by turning a blind eye to matters that involve children.

In relation to formal allegations that my family have been making of systematic bias, victimisation, bullying, vilification, defamation, discrimination, neglect, oppression and misconduct that includes a conspiracy to cover up that has been aimed at my children for over 7 years by Education Departmental staff, and for which I have alarming amounts of evidence to support, the DET and the Ombudsman have refused to investigate the allegations and this has resulted in my children and family being targeted for years. My children have been through hell.

Recently, despite speaking to the Director General about the impact that it is having on my children and family and the unfair manner that we are being treated we were advised that they do not think that there is anything gained by revisiting the issues. As if there is nothing to gain by treating my family fairly, protecting the children and righting their wrongs and removing those who are failing in their duty of care? They are only thinking of themselves.

No Minister will afford my family procedural fairness and natural justice. They just accept the word of those responsible that say that the matter has been deemed closed. Policy has been breached as has the Code of Conduct. It seems that if it involves children and adults in the Labor Government - the adults are protected and the children DONT COUNT! The general Labor public would prefer to protect their Labor Government than protect the children. Of that there is no doubt.

I have already told the DET that we live in a Democracy and we have rights and I will do everything in my power to fight to protect our children from these people who harm our children until the day that I die.

Education – Keeping them Honest
http://jolandachallita.typepad.com/education/
Our children deserve better

haygirl

No bias here just fact

now where are your facts that i have asked for is it just spin.
Like i have been looking and from the other party's i can find little with regard to peadohiles.
One instance about porn on a computer.

This is a problem and if you are happy please submit your address and we can send these people to your street.

If you are happy with these party's and how they act you have them otherwise do what is right.

If we have these people in government how can we and our children ever be safe and be treated properly.

It seems that you are ok with this which makes me shudder.

I have a special needs daughter Fact and what i have found and this does not include swansea should scare everyone.

When the unions only stand for the labor party and not the people and what is right then what do we have corruption.

I will keep putting the truth out because the people need to know and this subject is at the heart of the problem.

Assualts,peadophiles, corruption you really do have a choice and if i loss votes that will show how shallow people really are as to what they say and really stand for.

Stuart Ulrich
Independent Candidate for Charlton
swulrich@bigpond.net.au

Rainier “Col, are you claiming that you never masturbate?”

I fail to see how you can allude to such a question from what I wrote.

May be your own personal pleasures have addled your brain and developed hair on the palms of your hands? The content of most of your posts would support such a hypothesis.

Tapp I agree , corruption comes in all political flavours. I doubt Labor is worse than liberal or vise-versa. Corrupt, like virtue, is an individual trait, the main problem is the ability to those with supervisory authority to be prepared to face up to their duty and stand against it, instead of covering it up for the sake of their organizations / there own name (disgraced Ex Gov Gen Hollingsworths please note).

Tapp,I've read your posts on other discussions on olo and you are always blowing your own trumpet and adding your political ad,just above your name.This article is about sexual molestation in the 50s and 60s and how people are coping with it now.Predators are in every walk of life be it political,religious,sports.teaching or in the home and it unfortunately will never be stopped.Down through the ages the people at the top have either turned a blind eye to it or hidden it.Where were the politicians when young boys and girls,like myself were being abused 40 or 50 years ago?Where were the church leaders?Where were the general public?Where were the independent politicians?
Jenny R
housewife,mother and exinmate
no political affiliations
independant minded person.

Haygirl correctly points out that sexual abuse is not related to a political party or independents. If this were otherwise we could vote out sexual abuse by simply voting for a political party that never had any sexual abuse. The reality is that when (then) Governor-General Hollingworth was in the thick involved in a sexual abuse scandal it was the Liberal Prime Minister John Winston Howard (broadcasted on national television) who announced that when he attended lawschool (some 44 odd years before) it was different to have sex with a child under 16. Now, here we had Howard, as I view it, basically endorsing under age sex by adults!

Anyone who assumes that sexual abuse relates to the political status of a person should have his head examined. There are no political badges that is used to justify or denounce sexual abuse. Neither should anyone seek to make political mileage out of sexual abuse.

Sometimes the offender doesn’t himself/herself realise that he/she is committing sexual abuse, as the conduct engaged in somehow is taken as permissible. And trying to give those persons an understanding that their conduct is not acceptable then even becomes harder in that regard, as unless and until they realise their conduct is not acceptable they may continue their deplorable conduct.

As for ignorance of sexual abuse, that occur by authorities regardless of which political status the government is. Generally it is the employees who are causing the problem. Anyone who reads the Hansard (government transcript of parliamentarian proceedings) will become aware that if you make a lot of noise it is more then likely the politicians will refer to it. Hence, the more people talk about sexual abuse the more likely some politician will finally get the message and seek to get appropriate action taken!

FOR MR;Gerrit h Schorel-Hlavka, as ever person on this site know that we are victims in need of justice ,as to what we occurred while in the states institutions , as for you people who don;t know what its like , you have no idea, of what we still suffer , anyway mr gerrit you asked if you could read the judgement of my case go to the surpreme court web site n.s.w click on judgements court of appeal , 2007 case name is brown v state of new south wales ,, if you want you can email me at michealjbrown@hotmail.com .. if all of us victims keep our fight in us at least we know the goverment is going to have to tell the truth soon

For those thinking that is about political gain you are completely wrong.
I post who i am to say this is not good enough.
I post what i do as it is fact.
IT is required for checks to be done on school teachers.

I post to say enough is enough and those from other political party's or anyone else who posts, do so behind a shield.
Hidding, I for one will make it known that this unacceptable and until it is stamped out at the political level how can we even see it happening to us.

You do not see the other people or those who are supposed to represent us standing up and saying who they are and fighting for the people.

So really i dont care if i win or loss
I dont care what you think of me
My family stands by me
Me family's health insurance has run out due to money constraints and due to what, For me to stand up and fight for the people.

What i do care about is standing up for the people and doing the right thing.
I am ex army Medically discharged, married and have a special needs daughter who is now 17.

That is who i am, and i have the balls to stand up and say how bad this is and stand by my word.
I will not cover things up just because you do not like it.
I will not cower or be told that i am doing this for political gain.

The question to you and everyone else here is;

Did you know about the gross negligance of the labor party,
Did you know about the hidding of peadophiles,
Did you know about the corruption.

If you answer no then you have learnt something

If you already did then how can we ever fix this with government thats says

DO AS WE SAY NOT AS WE DO.

Stuart Ulrich
Independent Candidate for Charlton
swulrich@bigpond.net.au

Has anyone else noticed that Kevin is conspicuous by his silence.Probably patting himself on the back.
Tapp, obviously your reading skills are as bad as your spelling,otherwise you would have read that i also was a victim of abuse.I in no way condone abuse or the coverups that ensue.As for statistics re any subject,they can be manipulated to suit any point of view.Quite often depends on who is collating the data.I dont need to prove who was in power whilst i was being abused,it is common knowledge who was governing in what years.You are a bottom feeder to try and make political mileage out of this subject.As for some comments re compensation,why is it a politician can fall off an exercise bike and be compensated?Why can a policeofficer choose his/her occupation and be compensated for stress?The individuals who went through the child CARE (i use the term CARE loosely) system had no choice in what was done to them and if to this day are still traumatised,why are they not entitled to compensation?The money comes from the govt coffers and in most cases the govt was resposible for those children.Sure a few may make unwarranted claims but they will be found out.By the way.The punishment books for a lot of govt run institutions are now accessible up until 1970. Only by the inmate concerned ofcourse.I have sent for mine and if they have been truthfully completed should make interesting reading.Have a nice day and try not to judge others and their propensity to GET OVER IT OR MOVE ON.

Remember Wilma?

this is for haygirl, im a victim too , and my story is real

Hi Huffnpuff,I was not referring to you or anyone on this site when i commented about some people abusing their right to sue.I was just stating that some will try.
I was talking to a midwife recently and she said that she'd never seen so many 11 &12 year old girls having babies.Wonder if that could have anything to do with the $4000 they receive for giving birth.Having seen many young girls interviewed on tv saying that was the case,i wonder if legal action could be taken against the federal govt for encouraging promiscuity and carnal knowledge.Maybe the govt should have put an age limit on those receiving the benefit.Hope what i just wrote is not libellous.I can foresee these same girls suing the govt later on because their lives were ruined by the promise of easy money.My quota is up for today.Bye all.

Haygirl, I can understand what you are trying to say about young girls having babies, but constitutionally the Federal Government cannot discriminate between a baby born to a female on age. If you allow this kind of legislation then it will be misused and abused on other issues also.
Neither can it be argued that the Federal Government somehow “for encouraging promiscuity and carnal knowledge” could be liable, as I am not aware that this is any kind of the Federal Governments message, either directly or indirectly.
The fact that there is an invalid pension payable is hardly for anyone going to sue the Federal Government for having encouraged someone to become an invalid!
As a taxpayer I rather have that a young girl has the baby even if this meaning to pay for it on social welfare then to somehow cause her to have an abortion!
Sure, it would be better to have young girls avoiding pregnancies but in reality we can control that as much as we can control the rain!
As for Wilma’s story there might be a twist onto matters that in view that the Constitution Act 1902 (NSW) actually was unconstitutional and so ULTRA VIRES because there never was a State referendum held to approve or veto this Constitution Act 1902 (NSW) then the purported legislation authorising her placement itself may be ULTRA VIRES. By federation, “sovereign parliaments” became “constitutional parliaments” and as such no longer had any legislative powers to amend their constitutions. They can only propose amendments and leave it up to the State elector to approve or veto such constitutional amendment.
In my view, those placed in “CARE” may therefore argue that it was without legal authority and be able to sue where otherwise a Minister may hide behind legislation having validly allowed their “CARE”.

Col Rouge,is it true that you were or a prison warder.Some scuttlebutt going around says so.If it's not true,you should make haste to say so.

haygirl.

"Col Rouge,is it true that you were or a prison warder.Some scuttlebutt going around says so.If it's not true,you should make haste to say so."

Hi haygirl

I have been employed within a prison, I am not and never have been a prison warder. Not everyone who works within prisons are warders.

However, my views on most things, were formulated well before the time I did work within a prison. Spending sometime observing the goings on inside, merely confirmed those views. Most seriously, that we are all responsible for the consequences of our own actions and often the difference between a criminal offence and no offence is recognition of those consequences.

I also have family members who have spent time inside, some as prisoners (culpable driving), others as warders and prison management staff including professional educators who have spent a big part of their life doing their best to help prisoners acquire the skills which will allow them to work in a viable alternative to the criminal lifestyle.

Thanks Col.Someone sent me an email and i thought i should get you to clarify the situation.I haven't found any of your posts to be a problem.Just wanted to find out.Actually it would probably be beneficial if a warder or someone in authority from a gaol,put their opinion forward.We could then hear what it's like on the other side.I know what i was like as a juvenile offender and i'm glad i wasn't in charge in any of those places.Some of us gave the officers a real hard time.Unfortunately some of the officers were real bastards also.Thanks again.

hmmm...

Ok so then col was previously a worker in a prison... and has had members of family imprisoned.

OK so obviously child care is the same thing right?

No wonder the system is what it is and was what it was... when people who have been through the welfare system in the 20th century and can identify an ex-prison worker as the main source of their 'care'!

And that sits well with people?

and people should just get on with it?

What amazes me is that it is CHILDREN that are being talked about.

not criminals
not adults

Children, little people.

and yet there is still the expectation that children would have the mentality to conform, not rebel, not run away, put up with abuse, recover from the abuse with no aftercare or support...

Amazing considering the cotton wool that children are wrapped in today, that people can still shrug off what was done in the past and blame it on the children.

Babies... that's all they were... babies..

The most vulnerable members of society....

and yet we will not acknowledge or listen and learn from the mistakes, we will just keep shoving it under the rug, ignoring it until it goes away, and if it gets too loud we will just attack it to shut it up.

Well I hope noone from that generation/s who endured our nations care ever shuts up. I hope they get louder and stronger. I hope their voices are heard and listened to.

But as a wise woman once said...

if they dont get it they just dont get it.

liftingtherug

Good for you for reminding us what we are dealing with here.

The world will not be allowed to forget what was done to us.Their are many groups of people from all walks of life bringing the truth into the open.Exinmates and state wards are banding together and making representations to the courts and governments.We are there for each other regardless of race or creed.Stories are being told to the media and printed privately.This fight has barely begun.We had our mouths forcibly shut as children but now we are of one loud voice.Some want money but most of us just want justice.Unfortunatly most of the perpetrators of the horrific deeds are dead.They took their super and retired or were moved to another facility to continue their disgusting behaviour.These people got their money,mostly from the government of the day.Don't begrudge the survivors of those places their day in court or any compensation if the courts find it suitable.This was not just a matter of surviving hard times as some have bragged about doing.These were cases of innocent children being physically and sexually abused.Think how you would feel if these had been your children or yourself.We are FIGHTING back now.

i wish to let you all know that nobody has botherd to put a commett in the forgotten australians disscussion other than myself . why is this , we are all talking about this on wilmas story and wilmas story is as mine is and i am a forgotten australian as wilma is , and thanks to haygirl for getting the disscussion running , so why are no body putting any comments on that story , ,and for you col rouge if you were invovled with any prison or administration , you would of seen the good and the bad , and don;t tell me their was more good than bad , as ive been in the prison system and also the boys homes ,, and when i was in the main stream of prison i had bashed many pedophiles they seem to come into the system making out they are in for other crimes , until it is really found out about them, , and i for one know what its like to be raped as a child , due to daruk boys home , no doubt mr rouge you could tell the truth your self as to how the wardens just took things into their own hands , specially at grafton of whom mr peenning was know as the grafton basher until he took superintendent job at maitland goal , i know i have seen the worst of the worst , from both sides yes their are decent officers and teir are the scum officers, or adminastrators , and the pedophiles that raped me are still alive , would you like their address, look up my court transcripts , you will even get their names ,maybe you might know them , kind regards micheal

huffnpuff,

I have made several references to the Senate Report on the Forgotten Australians in other posts responding to Bernie Matthews' articles. See for example Marlene's Story 15 August 2007.

I admire your guts in telling your story with passion and honesty. It takes courage. Good on you!

Haygirl “I haven't found any of your posts to be a problem.”

I would hope not, what I write I write with sincerity, some might disagree and I welcome the opportunity to debate views but some seem to find my direct and maybe uncompromising approach to life hard to take, it is because I am very analytical by nature but hopefully not lacking in compassion.

Liftingtherug I am not sure what motivated your post but mine was in response to direct question asked by haygirl.

However, if you have been aggrieved in any way, I suggest you do something about it. If someone abused you or you know of others who exploited their authority and abused people, then the best way of dealing with it is publicly.

Abusers are inherently cowards and exist by the silence of their victims.

Corruption hates the spotlight of publicity, denounce your abusers, denounce them public.

The biggest advantage an abuser has is the apathy of his or her supervisors and victims.

Huffnpuff - prison officers, I saw some good, who were very capable and fair and a few others who tended toward arrogance (probably insecurity). These days officers are required to undertake psychology tests, that is a good thing, it helps weed out the high risks and temperamentally unsuited.

Abusing pedophiles in prison is no different to abusing children, it amounts to bullying and unjustified vengeance. Whilst you might feel justified in being the “fists of justice”, remember "justice" is why we have courts and prisons, not as an opportunity for personal vengence.

Huffnpuff no use claiming that no one referred to others then Wilma as I made clear that regrettably there are many others, by-whatever-name-they-may-go-by.

Col Rouge correctly points out that we have a court process and prisons to deal with matters and while you may seek to justify to take the law into your own hands in prison to bash a person who deem being guilty of some hideous crime, it may very well be that the victim of your assault was perceived to be guilty as much as we had the claim of WEAPONS-OF-MASS-DESTRUCTION. Often people are “deemed” to be guilty regardless that there is no real-evidence to this.
If in the end someone is becoming the scapegoat of your bashings and others follow the same all under the pretext to measure out JUSTICE and in the end the person being bashed was mistakenly held to be a child abuser then nothing in the world can make undone the deed to were involved with and I view you can not claim to be any better then others who prey on their victims.
If you pursue JUSTICE then acknowledge first of all that you too must accept that others are entitled to JUSTICE.

I recall an incident where we were robbed and my wife then made known it had to be the (then) neighbour because she felt he had looked so guilty when he looked in her direction. There was absolute no evidence to indicate that the neighbour had robbed us but what my wife viewed was his “guilty” look when he was at his backdoor looking in her direction. The Police investigating the matter made known that we were robbed by professionals who were doing their rounds in the area.
As such, the perception of a “guilty” look hardly can make a person to be guilty!
How-on-earth-you-may-have-claimed-a-person-was-for-other-reasons-in-prison-is-another-thing, unless the governor of Prison invited you to have a good look through all files of inmates, something I think would have been unlikely, as to satisfy yourself who might be guilty of whatever!
Try to understanding the meaning of the word JUSTICE!

I think huffnpuff is trying to say that their is an article called "forgotten australians" and he is concerned because no-one has posted on that,other than himself.I know because i opened the article on the request of huffnpuff,as he had problems doing so.If you can find the time,have a look at it and maybe you will understand why he is so upset.
Just a thought.Keep em coming people,makes interesting reading.The more people to have their say on this topic,the more our stories are being heard.The more our stories are being heard the more chance of the government finally doing something.

haygirl & huffnpuff

I've just found the forum you referred to. Thanks for alerting me to it. I've made a posting.

Best wishes

Frank

Hi, my name is Wilma Robb.

To all who have posted comments on this site, those that have seen what this story was about and for the ones that only seen through their eyes and set minds as to what they wanted to see.

Shame on the small minded Australians.

Blame and shame was thrown back to me and others that read this article and who had been abused and trying to come to terms with it after all these years. We all have a story to tell, good or bad.

For those humans who cannot and will not get their heads around Child Abuse, and accept that we were not born evil. The evil system made some that way.
We as children carried that shame into our adult lives, through people like you who want to attack us as that 'poor me victim ,Get over it attitude'.

There was a documentary on Radio National ABC (Hindsight) today 21/Oct on the Hay girls reunion (March 3-4 March 2007) called "Exposed to Moral Danger".

What a disgrace the danger that we were exposed to was -- a system of Child Welfare Department. The same Department that operates today, Docs.

Next week Hindsight is on Bessy Guthridge in trying to get both Parramatta girls home and Hay girls institutions closed down.

Please take the time to listen or read both transcript to that documentary.
It tells stories from screws, governments of the day, the Hansard record, the girls
This was all ignored,between 1961-74.

Bernie keep up the great enlightenment on our Shameful Australian History.
1974 is not that long ago the ripple is still affective to all generations. There will always be new generations of children,
and always be parents out there that can not cope for one reason or other ,that then affects there children, they are always the unfortunate ones.

Child abuse and damage done to Children will never go away and neither will the life long affects.

Any valid thoughts on both documentary are welcome.



Wilma

Hi, my name is Wilma Robb.

To all who posted comments on this site, those that have seen what this story was about and for the ones that only seen through their eyes and set minds as to what they wanted to see.

Shame on the small minded Australians.

Blame and shame was thrown back to me and others that read this article and who had been abused, trying to come to terms with it after all these years. We all have a story to tell, good or bad.

For those humans who cannot and will not get their heads around Child Abuse, and accept that we were not born evil. The evil system made some that way.
We as children carried that shame into our adult lives, through people like you who want to attack, as that 'poor me victim ,Get over it attitude'.

There was a documentary on Radio National ABC (Hindsight) today 21/Oct on the Hay girls reunion (March 2007) called "Exposed to Moral Danger".

What a disgrace the danger that we were exposed to was -- a system of Child Welfare Department. The same Department that operates today, Docs.

Next week Hindsight is on Bessy Guthridge in trying to get both Parramatta girls home and Hay girls institutions closed down.

Please take the time to listen or read both transcript to that documentary.
It tells stories from screws, governments of the day, the Hansard record, the girls
This was all ignored,between 1961-74.

Bernie keep up the great enlightenment on our Shameful Australian History. Thanks for not cutting the goory bits, I and others never had the chance to escape that.

1974 is not that long ago the ripple is still affective to all generations. There will always be new generations of children,
and always be parents out there that can not cope for one reason or other ,that then affects there children, they are always the unfortunate ones.

Child abuse and damage done to Children will never go away and neither will the life long affects.

Any valid thoughts on both documentary are welcome.



Wilma

TO ALL US FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS , AS A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE THINK THAT WE WERE THE ONE'S THAT ASKED TO BE RAPED BY THE PEOPLE WHO WORKED FOR THE GOVERMENT IN THESE INSTITUTIONS, THE GOVERMENT STILL TODAY COVERS UP ALL THE ABUSE THAT WE FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS SUFFERED, I THANKED HAYGIRL FOR GETTING MY POST UP BUT THE MODERATOR OF THIS SITE HAS BEEN WIPPING THEM OUT SO NO ONE CAN SEE THE REAL SIDE OF WHAT WE ARE SUFFERING , ID LIKE TO SAY TO WILLMA IM JUST AS YOU ARE BECAUSE THE GOVERMENT IS COVERING UP FOR THOSE PEDOPHILES THAT WORKED IN THESE INSTITUTIONS, ALSO HI TO FRANK GOL ,I UNDERSTAND YOU ARE WITH US FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS , ALSO TO ANY OTHER FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIAN OUT THEIR SPEAK OUT LIKE WE ARE AS THE MORE PRESSURE WE PUT ON THE GOVERMENT THEMUST SOON ADMITT THE TRUTH AS TO WHAT HAPPEND TO US ALL , KIND REGARDS MICHEAL , I SEND MY SURPORT TO ALL FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS, I ALSO STARTED ANOTHER TOPIC CALLED PEDOPHILES RAPE FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS THIS STAYED ON THIS WEB SITE FOR ONE DAY THEN THE MODERATOR TO IT OFF, IS IT BECAUSE THE TRUTH I SAY IS REAL THAT THE MODERATOR DOES NOT WANT THE PUBLIC KNOWING OF THIS SO THE MODERATOR IN MY BELEIF IS WORKING FOR THE GOVERMENT AS THIS IS A NATIONAL FORUM

HI TO ALL FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS , WHY IS THE GOVERMENT STILL COVERING UP THESE TRUE EVENTS THAT WE SUFFERED AS CHILDREN , BERNI I FORGOT TO MENTION YOU IN MY LAST HELLO ,YOU HAVE BEEN ALONG SIDE US IN THE FORUMS TRYING TO GET US ALL JUSTICE AS WELL , IVE BEEN TRYING SO HARD TO GET JUSTICE ,BUT ITS JUST AS IF THE GOVERMENT WANTS US TO TAKE OUR OWN ACTIONS BUT THAT WON'T HAPPEN , IM DOING THE RIGHT THING AND PURSUING THIS THROUGH THE COURTS YET THE COURTS STILL PROTECT THOSE PEDOPHILES THAT WORKED FOR THESE INSTITUTIONS , WE ARE NOT ALONE ,AND THE GOVERMENT KNOWS THIS , ONLY WISH ONE OF THE REPORTERS WOULD PUT IT ON THEIR DEBATE WITH HOWARD AND RUDD, AS BOTH LIBERAL AND LABOUR ARE RESPONABLE AS TO WHAT WE SUFFERED AS THEIR WERE DIFFRENT GOVERMENTS IN CHARGE AT DIFFRENT TIMES , I WAS RAPED AND ABUSED IN 1977 AND 1978, AT DARUK BOYS HOME , AND I JUST WANT TO SAY TO THE MODERATOR OF THIS SITE YOU ARE SO GUTLESS TO NOT ALLOWING MY NEW ARTICLES TO STAY OPEN FOR DISSCUSSION , AND YOU TELL ME TO GET MY SELF TOGETHER , WELL YOU LISTEN ,I DON'T HIDE MYSELF FROM THE PUBLIC , LIKE YOU ARE DOING ON THIS COMPUTOR , WE THE FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS WANT REAL ASWERS ,AND THE TRUTH WHY IS THE GOVERMENT STILL COVERING UP THESE PEDOPHILES THAT WORKED IN ALL INSTITUTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MENTIONED IN THE SENATE INQUIRIES, AUGUST 2004 AND MARCH 2005, WE ARE THE REAL VICTIMS , THAT ENDURED THE MOST HORIFFIC CRIMES AGAINST YOUNG CHILDREN AND BOTH THE LABOUR AND LIBER PARTIES ARE COVERING UP THESE ACTS THAT WE SUFFERED AS YOUNG CHILDREN , GO TO THE SITE KOCKYPRIC.COM AND YOU WILL SEE HOW FAR SOMEONE GOES AS TO TELLING SOMEONE NOT TO CONTINUE THEIR FIGHT FOR JUSTICE ,YES I GOT TOLD TO SHUT UP BUT I WILL NEVER STOP THE FIGHT FOR JUSTICE, KIND REGARDS MICHEAL

Hi Wilma and Huffnpuff,I listened to Exposed to Moral Danger in company with another ex inmate and we were both lost for words.I relived the nightmare of my 24weeks and 3 days in that hell hole.I was not sexually abused whilst at hay but i did buck the system and spend a lot of time in isolation and had my meals reduced many times.I could not have believed the effect,after all these years,the program had on me.I,m an easy going,happy person but remembering what happened in those places has made me more determined to do my bit and stop anything like this occuring again.The humiliation and degredation we were put through as young children has left a scar on all of us,even myself.I hope many people listened to the program as the word needs to be spread.Unfortunately the bastards that raped and abused us are now dead and can,t be held accountable.The women who worked in those places knew what was occuring,if they had spoken up as one voice,maybe it would have been stopped.I do put some of the blame on them and didn't find one of them to give a damn.Quite the opposite in fact. When all is said and done,they were supposed to be caring for us.

"When all is said and done,they were supposed to be caring for us."

___________________________________________________________________

And that is the bottom line.

They were supposed to be caring for children, they didnt.

I listened to Radio National yesterday also and made sure that anyone in my house sat and heard it too... my husband now has a better understanding of what went on, what is happening and what needs to happen.

Wilma - you are an amazing strong woman, who inspires others all the time!!... thank you!

To all the other survivors of Hay and the child welfare board... talk, speak and be strong.. there are many people waiting to listen.

Dont be silenced by those who are blind and deaf... for every person who 'doesnt get it' there are many who do.

John Howard wants Australian history to be taught in schools..... I wonder if this is what he has in mind... I know as a parent I want my children to know.

Knowledge is power... power to ensure that this NEVER happens again.

Haygirl and Wilma

I agree with Liftingtherug. You are both strong people and your example encourages others to be strong.

Thank you for rattling the chains. It's very important that people like you (and me) keep at it. Governments, churches and charities hope we will all just die or get old and tired.

Today's Age newspaper has a list of Howard's Milestones in Australian History which all Australian children in Years 9 and 10 must study. Surprise, surprise - there's no mention of the 5000,000 Australian children who were incarcerated in institutions between 1920 and 1990. Apparently, we only want our schools to teach 'nice' history.

So the Forgotten Australians will be forever forgotten unless peole like you (and me) keep making our voices heard. Good on yer.

Haygirl
Hindsight "Exposed to Moral Danger" really rubbed salt in to wounds again .
Older girls that rang me Sunday had not heard any of that documentation from Government hansards,or Welfare they were absolutely re-traumatized.
to know that what was happening to us was know and talked about in parliament ignored and laughed about.

I agree, its a pity the officers didn't speak up earlier.
After so many lives were damaged and lives taken threw substance abuse or suicide both go together. Even though it all validates our stories now.

The Hay girls won the Canberra Short Film Festival award for the Documentary "Eyes To The Ground And Welcome To Hay".Saturday night in the youth section.

Both those documentaries should be read and shown in Parliament at there next sitting. Its all getting taught in the Canberra tafe for community development and has been since the Senate Inquiry. Forgotten Australians.

Stay on top of it Haygirl, grab more strength and determination from that pain, for the ones not so fortunate the ones they took every thing from. Its easy to see where my head space was last night I did two postings not realizing. Revisiting the past always re-traumatizes.
FrankGol
There's a lot of voices out there we just need to get them all together. Its a shame there is so many still so damaged ,just imagine if they all had a voice. We all did, we were humans born with one, till the State Governments ,Churches and charities took that, so they could get away with there criminal acts.

Wilma