Any link between Dr Haneef and al-Qaida is tenuous indeed and it’s hard to imagine why the SBS Dateline program didn’t carry out due diligence. The question about the willing involvement of the Federal Police and the Federal Government to sully Dr Haneef’s name is an open one. However, relying on that bedrock principle of innocent until proven guilty which attaches to Dr Haneef’s situation we must assume the Government and Police are also innocent until proven guilty.

The author of this article seems to draw together suppositions, educated guesses, dodgy evidence, and an old fashioned Chinese whispering campaign with the hope that it will culminate in the beatification of Dr Haneef. I just hope Dr Haneef finds the time to bring his washing in and finish off the dishes he left in the sink.

The labyrinth of skimpy evidence, spin, leaks and simple mistakes in this case are mind boggling. They show how difficult it is for authorities, especially police and public servants caught up in the politics of it all. The only clear thing is that in such circumstances authorities need to be extra-cautious and follow the book.

It is fairly clear that Keelty hasn't done this. His comments about the whereabouts of the SIM card should have been enough for him to resign; he's clearly not up to the job.

The other concerning aspect of this is the irresponsibility of elements of the media (though to be fair some reporters and outlets have been very good on this). Bruce Haigh has raised important questions about the Al-Qaida issue, but not much has been heard of the appalling report about plans of the foundations of a building being found in Haneef's apartment. Are such smears simply to be forgotten and taken as normal media behaviour?

Bruce you are a generous man 2nd rate? I would say 4th 5th or 6th.

I have 2 main concerns here.

1....If Dr Haneef is a terrorist they bungled it and let him get away.

2....If he is innocent how can we trust them to find a real terrorist.

After 6 years, we still go on falling for this muck. Are we living in a cartoon or what?

---

"The Hegelian Dialectic is a method by which the globalists rule a target population by fear. Restated simply as Problem-Reaction-Solution, it is a three-stage formula, by which an artificial problem is created, which enrages the public.

The public then demands that "something MUST be done".

The third stage, which is a pre-fabricated artificial solution, would never have been accepted, had that artificial problem NOT previously existed.

But, the solution IS ACCEPTED, simply because the public has been traumatized and placed into a state of heightened suggestability, by the constant replaying of news footage of the attack. With the public placed under a state of fear, they would do almost anything, and agree to almost anything to alleviate the problem under which they had been currently suffering."

---

In this cartoon world, our lives are drawn by cartoonists who rely on our gullibilty. They know that our collective memory is steadily wiped every day by what we see on TV. They know that our minds are like a re-used videotape, the new supplanting the old by endlessly repeating "terror, risk, Al Qaeda and security".

The trick to retaining your equilibrium is to examine bits from the cutting-room floor:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-886644060632694627&hl=en

- of which there are many, if only we bother to look.

Here's some relevant weekend viewing then:

http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=-609179074068244932&q=webster+tarpley&total=880&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Enjoy! We can beat these bastards. We really can!

- no-one is smarter than all of us together.

alanpoi. Third possibility. Dr Haneef is "guilty" but it cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, or not without exposing confidential sources/methodologies etc. The investigation, having been seriously compromised by rabid sensationalism from the media and assorted politicians, leaking of transcripts, rantings from various legal quarters....the cops decided not to push on with it (who knows how many bigger fish than Haneef have slipped the net as a result of all this?) rather than blow anything else they have in train. I don't say this IS the case, but it could be.

Chris Shaw. Too much is made of "the population living in fear". Who do you mean? It is the weekend in Australis. Hundreds of thousands (millions?) will be attending all types of sporting events; many more will be in shopping centres; in airports; at markets; in cinemas and theatres throughout the nation. Likewise, evry day hundreds of thousands board palnes; millions buses and trains. This is fear?

Why don't you get real? It is you who live in fear and wish to get some company. Paranoia and conspricy theories are the surest sign there is of permanent "angst" (ie fear..in German; good you mention Hegel!) I have an insurance policy on my house; according to you this is "fear". I would visit a Dr if I was running a high fever; this is your idea of "fear". I wouldn't dive from a high rock into murky water without checking the depth first; again, this to numbskulls like you is "fear". Any normal person would say, as Mr JW Howard once phrased it, this is being alert (to risks) but not alarmed . Anyway, I'm off to the shops, and then getting a bus to take a plane to watch the NQ Cowboys play, and then take in a movie; hope YOU won't be quaking under your rock all day. Cheers.

PS. Since you claim the whole "terrorist/Islamist" threat is a beat-up, could you tell us the last time you were in Iraq,Iran or Afghanistan?

Dr Haneef's backgound is exhaustively checked by the AFP, ASIO, DSD etc.

Following this process there is no evidence the Government can use in court (even in camera (closed session)) to convince a judge or eventually the DPP that Haneef is a bona fide terrorist or terror risk. This is the only legitimate test of Haneef's innocence, not "we could nail him if we could tell" secret policeman's business.

The law applies even though a Government panicked by pending electoral loss attempts to spin a family association issue into a Terrorist In Our Midst issue.

Result - Haneef's passport is returned and he is free to leave Australia.

The Government may have hoped that the visit of a British police(person) and a suspect Indian document may have blackened Haneef's name in the court of public opinion - but these efforts failed.

Hence with 10,000s man-hours of AFP, ASIO, etc time wasted trying to nail Haneef the Government's pre-electoral jitters may well have distracted counterterrorism resources from (more important) APEC preparatory security efforts.

If something happens during APEC it would be tragic if the prolonged diversion of resources (pursuing Haneef) proved significant.

Pete

What most people fail to realise is that the terrorists and the conservative western govt's are in a symbiotic relationship.

Terrorist need a overkill response to gain more recruits "see what these nasty western infidels are doing to innocent true believers".

Western right wing ratbags need terrorist attacks to say "look what these nasty radical muslims terrorists are doing to us" to instil fear to convince punters to vote for them, and also because there is nothing they like better than knocking off brown heathens.

We have been feed this crap about how they want to destroy our way of life, this is bullsh!t, what they want is to get rid of corrupt dictators who are in bed with the west i.e. Eygypt, Saudi Arabia and introduce Sharia law. and they want us to stop playing our little games in their region.

Our reponse is exactly what Osama planned to happen, they had been running a terror campaign in Eygypt, Saudi Arabia and other west leaning countries for years with little effect then they got lucky with 9/11.

Another thing they don't tell us is that terror is an effective weapon, and usually suceeds, modern states that exist at least partly through the use of terror include, Algeria, Israel, Malaya, power sharing in Northern Ireland just to name a few.

History shows when dealing with terror you have 2 options,
You sit down ad talk with them or give in, beating them especially with a standing army is not an option, very rarely if ever works.

punter57, maybe it's the age difference, but let me remind you and every other young person here that car bombs, suicide bombs, terror and the other assorted paraphanalia are very new phenomena indeed.

It behoves us to find out something of their origins and purpose. We only have to research back a few years. We only have to put ourselves into the other person's shoes (or sandals, if you insist).

If an act makes no sense from your perspective, then IT MAKES NO SENSE.

If an act is loony from your perspective, then IT'S LOONY.

If you can't see yourself doing something mad, then it's almost certain that the other feller sees things the same way, no matter any cultural or religious differences. Rely on that simple truth. Have a little more faith in your fellow humans.

We seem to be at the point where every time a unicorn pops up, we are only too willing to get on that unicorn and ride it to wherever we are told. Is this the act of a civilised person? Is this the best we can do with all the apparatus of our modern civilisation?

I'm sorry, I don't believe in endless tales of Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves. I do believe that the greatest danger to modern society comes from our inability to understand ourselves. It is we who are destabilising and destroying the middle eastern countries. It is we who are committing genocide on the grand scale. It is we fundamentalist free-marketeers who wage war for profit. Right now in Iraq, there are more mercenary soldiers earning loot for their bosses back in Florida, than there are US Army soldiers! And that's just for starters.

It's all a matter of cui bono - who gains.

If any red-herrings come our way, check out the profiteers first. They will do whatever it takes to keep their noses in the trough. With a million Iraqis gone since 2003, a few Australians is neither here nor there.

Whatever it takes bro - whatever it takes.

alanpoi. That's it? Conspiracy theory followed by "I know what they want" without any indication as to where you got this info. Is that all you're offerring?

You may have noticed that there have been no terrorist attacks on Australian soil. The govt does not "need" one and is stopping them. Your assertion is absurd. You can't have it every whichway on this. Either the west is antagonising Muslims who ARE planning revenge (in which case they are not succeeding; they are being foiled by a govt who doesn't want nor "need" attacks) or else they are not planning revenge, in which case they are NOT being antagonised (sufficiently). Which is it?

Further; any claim to know what middle-eastern populations want is utter conjecture (paternalistic?). The only way to discover what these peoples "want" is to ask them via a free election/referendum/plebiscite or whatever. The goal of the CoW in Iraq is to provide the conditions for this to take place, while the goal of the various insurgent groups is to prevent it.

Should the population of Iraq vote for Sharia Law, so be it. Should they vote for a 3-Day Work Week, a house on the coast and Fox News...likewise. Are you against finding out what the majority of Iraqis want alanpoi?

punter57

You advised alanpoi

“You may have noticed that there have been no terrorist attacks on Australian soil.”

It appears that adherence to the Government line does not require knowledge of Australian history:

I offer the following correction:

The Sydney Hilton bombing occurred on 13 February 1978, when a bomb exploded outside the Hilton Hotel in Sydney, Australia. At the time the hotel was the site of the first Commonwealth Heads of Government Regional Meeting (CHOGRM).

The bomb, planted in a rubbish bin, exploded when the bin was emptied into a garbage truck outside the hotel at 1:40am. It killed two garbagemen and a police officer guarding the entrance to the hotel lounge died later. It also injured eleven others.

Twelve foreign leaders were staying in the hotel at the time, but none were injured. Australian prime minister Malcolm Fraser immediately called out the Australian Army to guard the remainder of the CHOGRM meeting which was moved enmasse to Bowral.

The episode is generally and erroneously regarded as the first and only domestic terrorist event to hit Australia's shores and had a profound impact on the nation. Erroneous because terrorism struck Australia earlier when a series of bombings in Sydney and Melbourne stretching from the late 1960s to the early 1970s, of Yugoslav businesses by Croatian extremists, claimed more lives and did more damage).

It highlighted the corruption which blighted the New South Wales Police Force and resulted in mounting pressure on the Commonwealth for increased support for the anti-terrorism activities of the intelligence services (AFP and ASIO etc).

Here endeth the lesson ;)

Pete
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com/search?q=APEC

Punter you are a complete goat, you misrepresented everything I have posted I don't know how you could twist it beyond recognition,
and WHY, don't use me as barrow to peddle your crap.
First thing get a dictionary and look up symbiotic it doesn't mean conspiracy or anything like it.
Second don't give me paternalistic crap if anybody is paternalistic its the West for trying to shove their system down someone else's throat.
Third I never said the West was antagonising Muslims you said that, what I said was the West is using fear of terrorism for their own ends.
Fourth I wasn't assuming what Muslims or Iraqi's think, I was offering an opinion that I formed by listening to and reading on what terrorist's think.I didn't even mention Iraq you said that too, nor was I refering to Iraq.
However if you want my opinion on what Iraqi's think this is it.
They want
1 All terrorist's off their soil BOTH Muslim And Christian i.e.Yanks and their allies.
2 Security
3 Jobs
4 Electricity
5 Water and Sewerage
6 Schools and Hospitals
What they don't give a sh!t about is democracy, the price is too high and no matter what system they have it will be run by @rseholes, they know that, and when this is all over another Saddam will step up to the plate and away we go again.
And if you want my opinion on democracy, it ain't that crash hot either, it could be good.
Rule of the people
For the people
By the people
But spin, money, greed. lobbist's, self serving polictians,the need to get reelected, a ridculous voting system that favours politicians not the people, massive incompetence and general stupidity have ruined it. I am sick to death of clowns that spin how great democracy is then continually corrupt it.
I don't know if there is a better system I have only tried this one.
I don't give a monkey's phuk if you critise me but at least properly read what I say and address that.
And you are still a goat.

Here are the entrepreneurs in the war on terror:

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/59571/

Here comes Sydney, and these blokes aren't excluded - they're actually part of it. Oh, spare us!

Got yer ears on Pete?

Plantagenet. Interesting that you haven't noticed that this thread (and Alanpoi's references) is/are about Islamic terrorists/suspected terrorists (not Ananda Marga nor Croatians) so I'll excuse you. It can be tough to concentrate sometimes. Next time I'll preface everything with "Islamic" so you will understand. Anyhow..

Alanpoi. Can you be so stupid that you don't understand the difference between a "scientific term" and a metaphor? Symbiosis refers to the relationship between animals/plants etc which is mutually beneficial without "conscious thought". Used with reference to govts and terrorists etc it means (more-or-less) a "marriage of convenience". This implies that the partners to this a know what they are up to and that are content to tolerate one another DESPITE public utterances to the contrary. You even said they "need" one another. If two or more members of the govt in a western country go along with this, while publicly denouncing it then it is a conspiracy.

Interesting that you claim to not be referring to Iraq but then list point after point about ....Iraq; and what you reckon they want. Put down that glass; you're over your limit. Goat57 out. Hahahahaha!

Chris and Punter

Oh youse be both envious, ARRRAAAHHH-GG.

Pete XXOX
(leanin on me scurvy legge)