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The Forum > Article Comments > The really inconvenient truth - part II > Comments

The really inconvenient truth - part II : Comments

By Michael Fendley, published 10/8/2007

We require a different way of thinking about ourselves, of how we are to live. We must embrace 'the art of living'.

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"The average Melburnian would be forgiven for thinking that if they only put a bucket in the shower, turned off the DVD or no longer washed the car then the problems confronting us would go away."
What they don't??!! Thats it no more buckets in the shower....you green shams.

"engines that run on unleaded fuel and remove this dangerous pollutant"
Which one?

"This stance is profoundly pro-people, for an existence of true quality and potential in perpetuity, not otherwise."
Yeeerrr right and pigs fly backwards.

"Christianity has been portrayed as being particularly unhelpful in caring for nature"
Christianity is somewhat irrelevant today but never fear enviromentalism is the new religion of the 21st century. Praise be to Gaia.
Posted by alzo, Friday, 10 August 2007 10:23:00 AM
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Nice to see Alzo in top form railing against anything that even hints of restraint!

On a more serious (but simplistic) note the nature of our financial system itself currently locks us into constantly striving for economic growth. Fractional reserve banking allows the creation of money by banks when these make loans - and they can only receive a return on this new money if the economy grows further - the asset and activity base must grow in order to give the new money value!

Looks like the collapse of the current economic order may be in order though. Expect hyperfinflation first and then a move to currencies based on something other than paper (or numbers in a computer).
Posted by michael_in_adelaide, Friday, 10 August 2007 11:28:05 AM
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Speaking of Gaia. It is an unarguable fact that the earth is a total energy system which operates or is "governed" by natural laws or mechanisms that in one way another always work to achieve a homeostatic balance---just as the human body-mind does---or tries to do---sickness symptoms being signs that the body is energetically out of balance---acupuncture for instance hepls to rebalance the subtle energy systems of the body and thus restore health

These Gaian laws obviously work over time spans much larger in scale than that of the normal human life time, and in a much vaster style altogether causing natural disasters of all kinds---earthquakes, storms etc etc (tsunami's even)

It is also an unarguable fact that human civilization (mis-lead by the West in particular) is profoundly out of wack or balance to the extent that we are making/causing all kinds of negative effects on the plantary eco or energy systems altogether.

Sooner or later the inter-connected energy systems that make up Gaia in its totality are going to bite back or do whatever it takes to rebalance itself.
Posted by Ho Hum, Friday, 10 August 2007 11:29:11 AM
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Dear Ho Hum,

Don't give the inanimate earth too much credit for its ability to seek and achieve balance, or humans too little credit for our ability to respond to conditions we don't like.

As far as I can see, humanity is the only part of the earth even remotely capable of self-assessment and is by far the quickest actor when it comes to changing land use, changing the composition of the atmosphere, exterminating undesirable species and the like. Volcanoes, hurricanes and earthquakes look big to individual humans, but the consequences of the activity of billions of people dwarf those of natural 'disasters' in the long term.

*Because* we are capable of reflecting on the consequences of our actions and *because* we have the capacity to change the earth, I think humankind itself is the only likely candidate for restoring the relative tranquility we disturbed, and thereafter for maintaining the planet in such a way as it keeps us comfortable despite whatever natural changes might otherwise have occurred.

No matter how much damage we do in the short term, as long as we don't wipe *ourselves* out altogether (highly unlikely in my view) we will be here for the long haul, and eventually we'll be bound to get our act together.

The most successful parasites don't kill the host, they evolve into its symbiotes.
Posted by xoddam, Friday, 10 August 2007 11:54:50 AM
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Look. Just see how Michael Fendley, can "dispose of pollutants, like CO2" by breathing out "..... we can strive to be more a part of the natural world, more aware of its workings and subtleties, more emotionally tied to its richness and health."
Posted by Keiran, Friday, 10 August 2007 1:01:46 PM
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Xoddan. If only that were so.

Unfortunately and dreadfully the scenarios envisioned by Lovelock, the "inventor" of the Gaia hypothesis will most probably come true.
But his idea was/is not new. Traditional so called "primitive" cultures" have always known that the world is a Living Being. And some of them--the Hopi for instance---have right, from the start, seen very clearly where the white-man's "culture" is leading.

Most people on this planet are overwhelmed by the sheer struggle for survival. They dont have the time, space or luxury to reflect on their situation---let alone make any changes.

Those that arent are stupefied by the insanity machine (TV) in their "living" room and the utter emptiness of our consumer so called "culture"----the titti-tainment "culture" that Aldous Huxley prophetically described in Brave New World.

Meanwhile we are also "living" in the equally horrific "culture" described by George Orwell in 1984. With the wall to wall propaganda of fear via the so called war on terror.

Meanwhile do you really think that anything can be done to stop the catastrophic floods that are now happening in India---25 million homeless people. That situation is only going to get worse as the de-forestation in the Himalayas continues on its present momentum.

What about the Tsunami that killed 300,000 people?

They are just the gross level horror scenarios in front of us.

If you want to read something truly horrific about the almost unstoppable biological micro-disasters now occurring everywhere---disasters which were created via both the unintended consequences of good intentions, and by the sheer malfeasance by those in power----disasters which will possibly make the global pandemics of the past look like Sunday afternoon picnics---please check out

Pandemonium at: 1. http://www.andrewnikiforuk.com
Posted by Ho Hum, Friday, 10 August 2007 2:08:09 PM
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You mistake my quiet confidence for hubris, Ho Hum :-)

I agree that the current direction and the assumptions of the global growth economy are destructive and utterly unsustainable. We must stop. We *will* stop, because we will run out of fuel and food. If we stop before that, it will be nicer for everyone.

Dire predictions of imminent doom-and-gloom usually prove too pessimistic; I think the 'nice' outcome is actually a likely one. The present unsustainable economy could conceivably make a soft(ish) landing instead of crashing horribly.

There's a chance that management of our land use will improve only after it gets a lot worse and a lot more destructive. But I am confident that it will improve in the end. I believe the human race will prove, at best, to be its own saviour and, at worst, a phoenix.

The odd earthquake, tsunami, flood or hurricane is not something we will ever be able to do much to prevent. It *is* something we could prevent from doing too much damage to people, if only we valued the people in question.

The human-caused microbiological disasters you adduce are another category and are likely to cause a lot of new problems. (Margaret Attwood's 2004 novel _Oryx and Crake_ was a cute apocalyptic riff on this theme). Yet even these are not likely to destroy the biosphere or the human race. Gaia and humanity alike are resilient; you would have to try very hard to eliminate either.

You & James Lovelock can think of these problems as "Gaia's revenge" if you like, but I see them more like "blowback" by analogy with the fire of Islamism, supported by France and the UK against the respective nationalisms of greater India, Arabia and Africa from the 1930s to the 1960s, the US against the USSR in the 1980s and by Israel against the PLO in the 1990s. Inevitably it burned the Western powers that fanned it, along with a lot of innocents. Starve such messy fires of fuel with prophylaxis, hygiene and education, and they will eventually burn themselves out.
Posted by xoddam, Friday, 10 August 2007 3:21:38 PM
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"Unfortunately and dreadfully the scenarios envisioned by Lovelock, the "inventor" of the Gaia hypothesis will most probably come true."
Well maybe if you wait long enough...

"With the wall to wall propaganda of fear via the so called war on terror."
And don't forget Global Warming.

"What about the Tsunami that killed 300,000 people?"
What about it? I hope you're not suggesting humans had a hand in it?

"I believe the human race will prove, at best, to be its own saviour and, at worst, a phoenix."
Have to agree with you there.
Posted by alzo, Friday, 10 August 2007 3:30:54 PM
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I don't know where I heard it but it seems that many people turn into socialist only after making their money as a capitalist. This certainly describes many of our GW High Priests and film makers. Environmentalism makes many have not dealt with the morally corrupt heart feel a bit better.
Posted by runner, Friday, 10 August 2007 5:33:50 PM
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I agree with Xoddam that to 'Starve such messy fires of fuel with prophylaxis, hygiene and education, and they will eventually burn themselves out.'

Howard, Bush, Mugabe, Putin and Castro are on their way out. If the successors to these and other fear mongers are good fire fighters and can tap into the good will of the wold's masses, particularly the youth, by directing a united effort at solving the real issues, then the human race does have a second chance.
Posted by Quick response, Friday, 10 August 2007 5:38:37 PM
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“Nothing is more likely to silence the enthusiastic environmentalist than being called racist by questioning the growth and consumption of other, sometimes poorer, countries. The cry, in part justified, is that wealthy nations have done just this and benefited greatly, so why can’t the rest of humanity?”

The UN should start a system of ecological taxation on the basis of quantity of CO 2 produced per head. Heads of states like the USA and Australia which did not ratify the Kyoto Protocol should be brought before the International Court of Justice to answer charges and if need be, fined or punished for polluting the earth.

It makes sense for developed countries to pay a Green Tax to developing countries e.g. Indonesia, Brazil, etc for keeping their forests or jungles in their natural state and avoid countries CO 2 build-up.
Posted by Philip Tang, Friday, 10 August 2007 7:54:09 PM
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Perhaps Michael Fendley, truly can "dispose of pollutants, like CO2" by breathing over some roses and carnations who would conveniently just love him. .... but that would sinfully be connecting with nature.
Posted by Keiran, Friday, 10 August 2007 8:28:27 PM
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A profoundly disappointing article, which never mentions the one overriding problem in the world, from which all others stem.

I refer, of course, to the problem of overpopulation.

Seeing as how the only thing that the muslim world and the vatican agree on is that nothing should be done to stem the rise in human population, it seems inevitable that the current environmental crises will get much worse when the third world doubles its population over the next 25 years. Fortunately the first world population has stabilised, but the extra 4 billion in the third world will impose an intolerable burden on the earth.

With the failure of humanity to address the problem in an ordered and humane way, it seems inevitable that the problem will be corrected in nature's traditional way, with the four horsemen of the apocalypse - war, famine, pestilence and death.

Stand by for a very rocky ride this century.
Posted by plerdsus, Saturday, 11 August 2007 7:34:23 AM
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Our planet is a closed system with the troposphere as the boundary layer and life as we know it is contained within. If the planet is threatened (as the UN Security Council and General Assembly think it is) then it makes sense that humanity takes action to remove or lessen this threat.

Some people don’t think there is a threat (and that is their opinion) but why then are all the world’s nations taking steps to address this perceived threat? Why is the world’s political, economic, scientific, engineering, social, educational, business, religious, etc. leaders addressing this perceived threat? Are they as stupid as some would have us believe? I don’t think so.

Does it not make sense to live in a more sustainable way? I think so.

Once we acknowledge there is a problem of this nature we can do something about it, can we not? Yes we can.

Of course it is not easy for those accustomed to an intensive consumer driven society. But is not the cost (direct and indirect) of making changes now cheaper than the costs in the future? Yes it is (and there are many benefits to be had).

Does it not make sense to live in a globally sustainable way? Yes it does.

So how do we solve the “World’s problems” (population, health, poverty, growth and development, finite and dwindling resources, conflict, etc) and live in a more sustainable way? The answer lies in respecting all life and the world that it inhabits.

In a practical sense, the solutions to humanity's problems start with acknowledging there is a problem, be willing to do something about it and then EDUCATING OURSELVES AND OTHERS about how to overcome it.
Posted by Q&A, Saturday, 11 August 2007 12:06:22 PM
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Yes I am suggesting, and good reason to believe that the collective activities of humankind may have been a causative factor in the Tsunami. Of course it is impossible to know one way or the other.
But we do live in a multi-dimensional quantum world in which everything is interconnected and which is far less solid that we are taught to believe.

Runner, when are you ever going to make some kind of intelligent comment other than socialism, socialism, socialism? Implicit in your comments is the presumption that we all wonderfully free that socialists are always scheming to limit our freedoms. The fact of the matter is that everything that we think, and do is governed and conditioned by other people and especially the media. Most of us are just robotic clones of the system, dutifully and unconsciously doing what we have been progranmmed to do.
Our culture, every last bit of it, being the invisible "sea" in which we swim. Check out the references to Captains of Consciousness by Stuart Ewen via Google----then see how "free" you really are.

Yes over-population is the Brontosarus occupying most of the room.
Every effort that we may take to limit and reduce our individual and collective ecological footprint(s) is plain old cancelled out by the sheer momentum of population.

And yes Runner the concept of ecological footprint is very real and thoroughly scientific. It is totally impossible for the planet to support everyone at even a modest western life-style.
Posted by Ho Hum, Saturday, 11 August 2007 3:39:41 PM
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Once again Online Opinion proves its worth by giving oxygen to thoughtful and thought provoking opinion pieces by otherwise unknowns. This article is far from perfect but it adds value to the current sustainability debate that we have to have. There's no one answer. It is to be hoped that there's an amalgamation of philosophical algorithms for each and every problem facing the world today. Winning the argument that we can enjoy a prosperous, peaceful, harmonious planet both harvesting and enjoying what the natural world provides is the challenge we face. Raising conscienceness and changing value systems would seem to be the way to go about it. Forums such as Online Opinion and articles like this one are an important part of the process. I hope Michael Fendley continues to contribute more articles.
Posted by STAUNCH, Sunday, 12 August 2007 12:03:45 PM
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to plerdsus
" I refer, of course, to the problem of overpopulation."

Good on you to mention the elephant in the china shop

considering the mutual attraction of each sex , the immutability of
human nature and the permanent laws of nature
there is only the good old horsemen of the apocalypse to keep things under control

WAR is in fact very disappointing , number wise ,it's only power is the destruction of civilized behavior

PLAGUE got a bit more bite ,easily outpacing war as a cause of population downsizing

DEATH I take as accidents such as volcanoes , tsunamis and other meteorites , very unreliable , low statistical probability of it , useless !

FAMINE , the old fear is probably the most reliable one ,always work
world grain reserves are getting thinner and thinner before harvest
the green revolution was based on cheap fossil fuels for machinery , fertilisers , pesticides and irrigation
a couple of bad seasons would decimate the poor countries and make our meat much more expensive
a severe increase in the prices of energy would have the same effect

time will tell ,

.
Posted by randwick, Sunday, 12 August 2007 7:41:44 PM
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It has been said that one's own personal example is the only way to effect change in the world.
To bring about the understanding suggested in the above article regarding the immense and all pervading beauty in Gaia (our planet) can I suggest the following practical,simple daily diversions:
Deep breathing and or yoga
Bicycle wherever possible
Increase the consumption of fresh vegetables and fruit.
Give some time for free to someone who wants it
Reduce one's witness of televised violence instead perhaps read history.
Play music or sing at least once a day
Offer something creatively to God and Goddess (AKA larger entities)at stellar calendar moments, full moon equinox, etc...(even if they are only human creations they are required once again as guides.)
Happiness and a glorious awareness of our lovely world results.
Posted by freewheelindave, Monday, 13 August 2007 11:09:25 AM
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Great point Plerdsus, the core issue is population growth, particularly in those regions which can least accommodate it, but don’t hold your breath waiting on the Al Gore’s of this world to start a campaign to publicise such an, impolite truth.
Posted by Horus, Wednesday, 15 August 2007 5:02:05 AM
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" ... the solutions to humanity's problems start with acknowledging there is a problem, be willing to do something about it and then EDUCATING OURSELVES AND OTHERS about how to overcome it."

Thanks Q&A. This is called WISDOM - a quality sadly lacking in today's 'modern', 'advanced' society ... er, sorry, Economy.
And in particular our public universities - said to be places of 'higher learning'!

Some here might be interested in the following and any similar sites.

http://www.knowledgetowisdom.org
Posted by Sowat, Wednesday, 15 August 2007 9:00:19 AM
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