Mick V asks:

>>If you have no faith, I don’t understand why you are concerned that Sells’s faith is on the verge of disappearing. Why should that bother you?<<

It's called compassion, Mick.

I can still feel compassion for others, even though I am not a Christian, surprising as this may be to you.

Sells has written many pieces about Christianity and his faith for this forum. On occasions I have even taken the opportunity to enter into a discussion with him, even though he operates on an intellectual plane far above mine. But when he writes an article that is so chock-full of self-doubt, I feel for him.

Just as you would feel for someone who has discovered that their partner is cheating on them, or that their child is a drug addict. I can't help it, I just feel sorry for them.

It seems also to have had an effect on other camp-followers, who seem stunned by the whole thing.

aqvarivs for example is usually far more vocal than this:

>>The same old tired unbelievers arguing<<

It is significant that aqvarivs picked the one phrase from Sells' piece that gives the whole game away.

Although it is the title of the article, and one might expect a little illustration as to what they are actually arguing about, the entire discussion excludes unbelievers.

It is all about believers. Either believing, or not believing, in miracles.

The article says nothing about unbelievers except "...they have taken the fall of the medieval mind, that occurred as a result of the Renaissance, the Reformation and the rise of natural science, to be also the fall of the Christian mind."

A bold statement, but one that is not supported by the rest of the piece. Most unbelievers may from time to time observe that Christianity has changed its shape a bit. But they have absolutely no view or interest in whether this represents "the fall of the Christian mind."

It is only Christians who worry about such stuff, as Sells' article clearly shows.

Mick V (and in a sense others) pick up on my burning of the bible and the conflagration it would create etc etc. I say there is much wisdom in the bible, no question of it, BUT the evidence points to misinterpretation, the literal taken over the symbolism. The messages, including in particular by Jesus, have been LOST by superficiality - translated to become trivial. So too my reference to burning the bible, killing god.

We can live without the bible. Its literal translation only promotes divisiveness so my proposed “burning” reduces the distraction from the truth. On balance, I humbly suggest we are better off without that book. Without that book we don’t get into a “yeah yeah, my book (the bible, koran, torah etc) is better than yours” childishness. Which is what this is about – puerile debate about the recorded miracles (two women have elevated Jesus to the supernatural).

So without the “book” what have you left?? Well, what have you Christians left without being able to claim a superior book? I suggest not much. Less claim to miracles than there are claims about UFO’s. Again, Christians do not experience healthier living, live no longer, are no less violent or criminal etc. than many other parts of the world. Christians, you have a real credibility problem without your book.

There is however one thing you can lay claim to. That book will help to overcoming FEAR – the fear of what happens after you die. That, and that alone is what the belief provides, an overcoming of nihalation.
No wonder you squirm when I talk of “burning of the book”.

What about learning there is only love. We are one. To respect each others as equals. To stop trying to convert others to your belief. To trust yourself. To belief in yourself

OK, let’s look at the philosophy that’s left after Thomas Jefferson cut all the supernatural bits and miracles out of the Bible a couple of hundred years ago and we can find in the Jefferson Bible.
We now can focus, without the hocus pocus, on what’s left from Jesus’ teachings which can be summarized in a short list:

• Be just; justice comes from virtue, which comes from the heart.

• Treat people the way we want them to treat us.

• Always work for peaceful resolutions, even to the point of returning violence with compassion.

• Consider valuable the things that have no material value.

• Do not judge others.

• Do not bear grudges.

• Be modest and unpretentious.

• Give out of true generosity, not because we expect to be repaid.

That seems to be all there is to it- and I doubt whether his teachings were even unique or original, really (if Jesus existed at all).

Heck, I may have promoted "Burn the Bible" but that does not mean the Bible does not contain wisdom.
Now Celivia promotes a simplified version but I feel that the extract is horribly superficial and misses the messages of Jesus profoundly. Playing around with a book like Jefferson did, is far far worse than burning it.

But hey, let's get away from the book debate. We are all wired up for spirituality it is just that some have been imprinted with some ancient out of date mythologies where we have to turn a blind eye to some whacko practices like sacrifices and angels etc. Whether Jesus lived or not is only relevant to cults.

A quick response to the psychological ‘faith is simply a fear of death response’ type argument. It would be equally easy for me to say that unbelievers deliberately suppress their awareness of God knowing that they will have to account to the Ultimate Judge for their conduct upon death.

You've all got it wrong. God simply wanted everyone to make the CHOICE to LOVE one another. And what is the definition of love...God is love. So put God into everything you do. Be kind to your neighbour, your enemy. Put others first and your own greed last.
Don't waste your time arguing over who knows God best and who can best define the meaning of existence. Just be good to each other. It's really very simple.