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The Forum > Article Comments > The death of personal responsibility > Comments

The death of personal responsibility : Comments

By Felicity McMahon, published 26/7/2007

Encouraged by a booming economy, low interest rates and easy finance, people have simply taken on too much debt.

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Stickman,
“I would have thought that was all the more reason to ENCOURAGE immigration from countries that can't seem to work out how to feed their people rather than discourage it.”

Stickman, I thought you were a pretty cluey guy -up till reading the above (!)

Your proposition is a sure recipe for disaster. All it will do is encourage the ‘have nots’ to have more unsupportable children.

It’s very telling that Yohane Banda,the father of the African boy Madonna recently adopted-& whom we were told couldn’t afford to support the child - has now decided to have another!
Posted by Horus, Sunday, 29 July 2007 9:30:35 AM
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Oh dear, Admiral. Perhaps I'm more skeptical than you, but I'm always suspicious of quotes taken out of context. The full text (I think) of The Australian article may be found here http://www.realestate.com.au/review/aug06/article1.html

McFarlane said, among other things, "To the extent that there are risky aspects of the world economy at the moment, they are the legacy of very low world interest rates during the 2001 to 2004 period," He also said interest rate levels were returning to "normal" after being "too low". You'll note, of course, that Costello didn't quote ANY of this. Fair enough too, a press release from the Treasurer is PR spin, not news. I trust the Admiral will be aware of that in future.

If Costello wants to claim credit for low interest rates (when they were low worldwide), then he has to cop the blame now they're rising (in line with world trends). Anything else would be an evasion of personal responsibility.
Posted by Johnj, Sunday, 29 July 2007 1:43:13 PM
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The best a politician can do is prepare an environment that encourages business and investment. They can not control the natural up and down of markets as investors come and go with in the natural supply and demand of natural economic trends [as opposed to forced economic trends]. The Howard government has done that for the most part and is paying off the debt accumulated by Labour, while still trying to have sufficient monies to float their political endeavors and rising government cost via union demands, pay raises, cost of living, and all the other variables effecting government and individuals, that comes with a capital economy. The Howard government cannot control the negatives inflicted on the market by personal debt and bankruptcies. Treasury may raise interest rates to attempt to control the slide but what goes up eventually comes down and vise versa. AND having some vague understanding of a capital economy and if one chooses to live by a credit economy. Take the responsibility for paying 18-20% above cost and the loss of that "disposable" income. Personally, I can't see paying anyone near 1/4 of the cost of an item today that I can buy tomorrow using that same saved 1/4. I see they have special credit cards for teens now to teach them how to live with debt. I suppose there will be a thread soon telling us all what a wonderful opportunity that is?
Posted by aqvarivs, Sunday, 29 July 2007 2:30:07 PM
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The Labor states' borrowings put upward pressure on official interest rates, all other things (tax, exchange rate, money supply etc.) being equal, because it causes 'crowding out' by competing with the private sector for funds, something which is especially dangerous at times of full employment when the upward pressure has a feed-back effect.

The negative effects of 'crowding out' can also be compounded when governments waste their borrowings, as ALP governments invariably do.

The Howard/Costello Government's tremendous achievement of paying off the Hawke/Keating Government's $90 billion debt and maintaining healthy surpluses has mitigated any upward pressure on interest rates and will be squandered away (as well as the Future Fund) should Kevvie get in - believe me, I've been there before.
Posted by Admiral von Schneider, Sunday, 29 July 2007 9:18:00 PM
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Ahh comrade john.. I don't know where to start with the gibberish you post but here is as good as any. Deposit? What is a deposit john? It goes to the SELLER of the property, not the bank,

The point I was making Stickman is that over the last two decades thousands of working people have lost their houses to the banks - in EFFECT losing everything. In the final costing, surely most people would include the loss of deposit, or that does not matter? In some cases, the process does not end there for there is still ongoing interest to be paid. Perhaps it doesn't happen that its all gibberish?
I will repeat what I said before, the banks and ppoliticians are not passive!
Since 1985 the banks, financiers and global companies through their servants in parliament have carried out a never ending assault on jobs wages and conditions called "restructuring" or "rollback." Stickman implies that has no effect on paying off a house. Realy? It is hard to decipher Stickman whether you have some priviledged position in society but you sure sound like you are gloating in your free of all and any monetary cares and responsibility. The role you play is to cover up or mask the mercenary and exploitive relations in society. Including the abuse of their trusted elected positions of governing. After hours, the bankers and politicians are never reticent at their lavish coctail parties as each tries to oudo the other in self satisfied smugness; never shy on telling how clever they are, nor how devious, always a force to be reckoned with.
Posted by johncee1945, Monday, 30 July 2007 9:38:46 AM
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Neither personal responsibility nor independence nor individuality nor choice seems to be part of the language of social democrats or the left.

The "right" and responsibility for individuals to accept the consequences of their choices and decisions is denied from the time young people start school. Their freedom is similarly denied. Few really understand or are prepared for life in a real democracy. People easily blame government - they're so accustomed to authority figures controlling, directing and holding sway over their lives, choices and decisions.

People do have rights. Rights are implicit within the freedom that ought to be available to every person in a civil, open, democratic society. Human rights also exist, but they are balanced by the need for individuals to be responsible or at least accept responsibility for the consequences of their informed choices. There is no excuse for an uninformed choice in this information age, if people are educated to ask questions and seek answers.

Unfortunately, we readily accept that it's the government's role to intervene, plan and direct everything. We too often act as if democracy is only about electing representatives every 3 or 4 years, handing over all our authority and responsibility to them.

Borrowers and lenders share responsibility for any overcommitment that arises from rising interest rates. Only the most naive people borrow money on the expectation that interest rates won't change. Borrowers must accept the down and up sides. When things are good people don't say anything. Now interest rates are rising marginally, borrowers and the opportunist Opposition are shouting. What are they saying about continuous economic prosperity that has lifted property values extraordinarily and incomes for 10 years?

This fairly balanced article reminds people we actually do live in a democracy.

We ought to strive for more of the freedoms and independence that democracy ought to bestow, and pass it onto coming generations.

We ought to demand the right to make more informed choices that we accept responsibility for.

Only when there is more freedom, less regulation and smaller government, will Australians truly prosper and our entrepreneurial, innovative, creative spirit flourish.
Posted by Derek@Booroobin, Monday, 30 July 2007 11:32:36 AM
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