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The Forum > Article Comments > What do AWAs really pay? > Comments

What do AWAs really pay? : Comments

By David Peetz and Alison Preston, published 20/7/2007

Research indicates that AWAs are frequently used for cost cutting or union avoidance.

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It is very frustrating when personal experiences are dismissed. Like some posters who cast doubt that conditions have become tougher.

I'm 49, so remember very well what it was like in the 80's. I've worked for 32 years. In the public sector and private sector.

I've also had businesses with my husband and been an employer. I know how hard it is in business. In all that time we've had one employee from hell who took us to Industrial Relations. Sure it was scary. We too believed all those stories of the 'power' of Unions and Industrial Relations to 'destroy' your business. The big bad bogeyman was a myth.

If as an employer you do the right thing, are honest, keep good and transparent records there never was any agency who was going to cause your business to fail. Failure or down turn in a business is NOT the fault of employees. Wages are the last in the list.

For many private business employers, many who are very mediocre at running a business in the first place, the temptation to reduce the payroll, whichever way, is the easiest way to improve outgoings vs income. Work Choices now make it even easier for incompetent businesses to stay open.
Posted by yvonne, Friday, 27 July 2007 7:36:26 PM
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ruawake: I need to respond to your two earlier posts.
1. during the Hawke/Keating years, with the ex-president of the ACTU as PM, employers and the ACTU had no choice but to work with the ALP government for the common good of all Australians. Contrast that situation with today, where you've had state ALP governments for most of Howard's 11 years in office and just about everything that the Liberal government has put forward has been opposed by the states, more for political reasons than because the proposals have been wrong. I'm unhappy with the way that Howard has changed IR laws but I have no problem with their intent: to keep Australia a competitive player in the world economy.
2. every worker lost wages during the Hawke/Keating years, without exception. Wage rates were often less, sometimes far less, than the inflation rate.
3. according to the ABS (and ignoring the 17.6% inflation during the term of that ALP hero Goff Whitlam), under Hawke/Keating, inflation peaked in March 1986 at 9.3%, peaked again at 9.8% in December 1986, hit 8.6% in March 1990 and then was only brought under control in June 1991 when Keating's economic policies took full effect. I apologise for stating that inflation was 12% during the Hawke/Keating years, but this error shouldn't detract from the economic reality which is that Australia suffered high inflation for most of the first 7 years of the Hawke/Keating government. Australia like any other country is always in need of fine-tuning its economy. Howard and Costello may not have the charisma of Hawke but they had a job to do. In the face of obstructionist ALP state governments and an ACTU which is part of the Labor political movement, they did what had to be done.
For all the media hype that the union movement and the ALP are creating over WorkChoices, the media has brought precious few examples of employees suffering under the new IR news to the attention of the public over the last year.
Posted by Bernie Masters, Sunday, 29 July 2007 10:45:18 AM
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Bernie history is one thing and a sensible person can learn from history. Obvious to all of us politicians of any party is neither sensible nor do they ever learn from history, crikey Howard never had the brains to learn from the Tampa.

Howards work choices that we had to have although not logical , nor rational , the consequences were always obvious, never based on honesty or integrity , and by nature slimey and philosophically creepy, a genuine throwback to the cotton mills days of Dickens and were most likely inspired by Dickens aside ; -

AWA's are destroying Australian families and spreading misery amongst the Australian people TODAY. I find that morally and patriotically repulsive. What I find repugnant is that as a tax payer my hard earned dollars are being wasted on Liberal party propaganda telling people who are certainly victims of Howards Work Choices that the destruction of their lives is not occurring.
Posted by West, Sunday, 29 July 2007 5:09:12 PM
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Bernie

Again you don't quite get the figures correct. Sure inflation was high under Whitlam, do you remember the Fist Oil Crisis? Oil doubled in price in a month causing world wide inflation.

Your reverting to blaming the states and unions signifies you have lost the plot (and the argument). Please argue the facts, leave the Liberal dogma behind, it does you no credit.

Workchoices is bad IR policy, it was not introduced to help anyone. It was introduced to satisfy an old mans ideology, one that was irrelevant - just as he is.
Posted by ruawake, Sunday, 29 July 2007 5:59:22 PM
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ruawake: I remember the 30% pay rise paid by the Whitlam government to federal public servants. I remember the absolute incompetence of that government causing the most severe economic and political crisis in our nation's history. Mind you, I also remember the 8 years of lost opportunities under Fraser.
As a person who's worked in the mining industry and state public service in WA, I'm also aware of unions abusing their powers over employers and of employees abusing their rights and responsibilities, with employers lacking any meaningful power to do anything about these union and employee excesses.
I'll ask again: with all the media hype about the evil consequences of the federal government's IR laws, where are the TV and newspaper stories of workers being abused and sacked unfairly, etc? Tell me a few stories about your friends and relatives losing their jobs unfairly, having their pay and conditions cut unreasonably and I'll start believing you. We're in election mode right now and hardly anyone is telling the truth; exaggeration is the norm.
The reality is that Australia is enjoying its lowest unemployment for 30 years, with strikes at their lowest levels for over a decade. In part, this is due to the new IR laws.
Posted by Bernie Masters, Sunday, 29 July 2007 6:31:44 PM
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Skilled workers are generally on a negotiated contracts anyway and have been so since Keating. Such contracts are vastly different to AWA's. When signing a contract such a worker is only looking to stay with the employer for a year or two , in many industries there is always a better offer waiting for the skilled worker here and over seas. Those who stay with an employer are rewarded with even better life balance conditions and salary. In many industries nearly the whole skilled base is approaching retirement within the next 5-8 years leaving many industries to have no alternative than to import their skilled workers or base operations off shore.

AWA's attack the rest of Australia, not only have Australians been denied access through education to improve their skills by the Howard government they have been side lined to operate as no more than sweat shop workers. I have relatives in the mining industry , over worked they will chuck the towel in, other than a few more bucks AWA's have nothing to offer them. I have never heard of anybody who has benefited by being forced onto an AWA. I know im not happy when my school age child is expected to be on call 24/7 for a token sum when my tax dollars are used to tell me that there is no problem. Yes I can veto AWA's I can afford to, out there there are Australians suffering because they cannot afford to say no.
Posted by West, Sunday, 29 July 2007 7:28:51 PM
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