runner

You say that my "extremely selective cut and pasting which paints Hawke/Keating as the causes of economic propserity today is deceiving at best".

Which part is deceiving? The list of Hawke/Keating achievements listed in the right-wing Australian, or the summary by the Sydney Morining Herald, or the speech by John Howard in which he paid tribute to Hawke/Keating? Are these sources what you call "laughable"?

Have you changed your mind in the face of evidence from a variety of sources - even Howard - that Hawke and Keating made significant economic achievements or should we agree with you that some posters, in your words again, "hold to their dogmas no matter what the evidence shows"?

I would say that many voters don't care who is responsible for the state of the economy, they just know they're not getting a share. It's the big end of town that is profitting, while everyone else is getting squeezed.

A strong economy doesn't mean more jobs when corporations are laying off full time staff and work is going off-shore or turning into casual/part-time positions, at least that's what they see. And when the politicians get up and spout about improvements to the unemployment rate it looks like selective accounting.

Voters are at the pointy end of government. They know how hard it is to get in to see a doctor, the waiting lists in hospitals, how long they have to wait for ambulance, police and fire service responses. They know how the public schools are deteriorating and how expensive private schools are. They are the ones catching buses and trains, stuck in peak hour traffic (yes I know, "that's State not Federal", but they don't care) and seeing changes in their work places.

God forbid that Labor gets in because, booga booga, the nasty unions will git ya, if the terrorists don't. If Labor gets in the economy will collapse. Booga booga. They see Liberals as being in the pocket of Business and the US (or even US Business).

Don't think for a minute that Labor are that much better, but we know what life under Howard and Costello will be like. More of the same, if not worse. People want things fixed, not to be told its all going well.

The point is are voters more scared of losing what they've got and not being able to pay the mortgage and credit card bills they've been suckered into?

Everyone knows Australia blindly follows the UK and USA, the good trends as well as the bad ...... but I was surprised when Hilary Clinton's website resonated with me
see http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/middleclass/ which says

America's middle class is under siege and ready for a change. People are working harder and longer for less and less.

Corporate profits are up. CEO pay is up. Wages are lagging. Household debt is soaring. At the same time, health care, energy, and education costs are rising. Last year, more people went bankrupt in our country than graduated from college.
. . .

If you're a worker who can't organize for fair wages and safe working conditions, you're invisible. If you're a grandmother who has watched this administration try to privatize Social Security and dump piles of debt on your grandchildren, you're invisible. If you're a mother who can't afford child care, a kid who can't afford college, a family that can't afford to get by on the minimum wage, you're invisible.

well, we're all agreed: australia needs citizen initiated referenda. we'll get them when a few recalcitrants finally admit that all our problems were created by pollies.

since pollies are in complete control of oz, who else can be responsible?