i wonder why unions don't reorganize themselves into co-op labor companies. they would have the protections of size and numbers, could offer insurance, super,and job training, and participate in a market society on equal terms.

best of all,if an employer broke the contract, they could be sued.

Lets ORGANIZE the workers.

YEP.. and the only union 'organizer' I know attends my gym. He is about 6'5" tall, very strongly built, with big tatoos and a permanent scowl. He used to take so many steroids that ultimately he had to go onto a course of 'anti' steroid steroids..

If Unions want to organize workers they can do what ALL OF US have to do if we want to gather a group around us for whatever purpose..they can ADVERTISE A PUBLIC MEETING AT A PUBLIC PLACE. and all who WISH to attend, may do so. Anything more than this is THUGGERY.

COLLECTIVE AGREEMENTS DESTROY INITIATIVE.. because they end up paying the 'slackers' the same as the go-getters. I longed to pay one go-getter MORE because of his productivity and attitude at my former place of employment, but collective agreements stood in the way.

COLLECTIVE AGREEMENTS are utlimately about the power of Union oligarchs, rather than the welfare of the workers.

COLLECTIVE AGREEMENTS can set 'minimum' standards. They do little for encouraging individual advancement and attitude.

They are just ONE of a number of valid approaches to solving the employer/employee dilemna which of course is..'viable business verses highly paid workers' It depends on the industry a bit, as to how strong the 'verses' is. Some industries can command high pay due to strong demand for their product and a tight labor market (Mining)

But the more competition out there, the more pressure the employer is to keep costs low, and this usually means pay rates along with cheaper sources of supply. (which leads to the next layer, as 'sources of supply' usually also mean wages and materials at the sub supplier.)

AWA's are only exploitable by unscrupulous employers in the short term, and when labor supply is abundant.
Don't like the show? change channels.
Don't like the job? change jobs.

After working for 30 years under a Collective Agreement I was made redundant and eventually returned to my old employer under an AWA.

This AWA was not able to be negotiated or changed in any way and was identical to everybody elses within the organisation.
I do not have all the conditions that are enjoyed by others under a Collective Agreement (EBA) who do the same work. Overall I am worse-off than my associates.

Despite the political spin being tossed around, I did not have the opportunity to "trade-off" conditions - these were taken away unilaterally.

Therefore my AWA is basically the same as being under a Collective Agreement but the conditions were independently set by my employer only and with no input from me or any other representative and no chance of any negotiation.

BD if nothing else you constantly amuse me with your lack of understanding.
Do not wipe unions yet, one unions radicalism is another's recruitment opportunity.
Invitations from bosses who have never wanted unions involved continue to roll in, recruitment by invitation!
A place will always exist for fair minded unions and some will prosper while those unwilling to except the challenges change brings are not going to be around.
Bad bosses however always will be.

I think there is a logical link between falling union membership and increasing collective agreement numbers.

For all our glorying in our knock about fair go stand up for your mates traditions we are a passive and conservative lot who readily accept what our betters offer. We expect that they will be fair. The reality that they are not or might not be is reflected in the polls. The majority believe or want to believe that unions are publicly funded (we are not)and provide public goods (we do). They benefit without cost. In most cases they would vote for the union to negotiate for them but not make the connection that they should then join.

Australians expect that government will provide and protect. The IR laws are on the nose because the punters smell a rat which will cut away their protection and stop providing.

Let's face it the majority of workers are over paid, cleaners, clerks, shop assistants etc etc, should have their pay cut so that employers can pay better skilled employees more.

If the punters vote for Howard again then I say "suffer in your jocks"!

Apathy is often a very big factor in falling union numbers, fear is too, both can be turned around.
I could write pages about the failures of members to stand up for themselves against unfair actions of bad bosses.
Another large log could be written about those who do and win.
However the last few days have reminded this true believer in both the ALP and the union movement unions must in some cases change.
I am greatly amused to find once warlike officials are trying to look like Mr nice bloke around construction sites.
Some look as comfortable as being dressed in the best suit you ever saw while wearing muddy gum boots.
However unions mostly have never used those tactics and a new more responsive path was under way before workchoices.
Just as hardship toughens us in any thing in life some unions are going to be very much better as a result.
I however know a few within any union have past the use by date long ago.
A future for any union that does not include a few changes will in my view bring great suffering to that union my view of the changes?
A few are
only the best are good enough to serve the members.
Never let a member down.
This list could go on for a few lines too but from every official accountability in every thing will do.